World of Warcraft really is an EverQuest copy/pasta.

[shovelquest]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I literally posted a video explaining exactly why that's wrong, but if you want to just ignore it, I can't stop you.

Your video literally says the art was inspired by Warhammer.

It literally says the game was a clone of dune II

those are literally the 2 points I made about the game.

Originally Posted by shovelquest [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I’m certain if you put images of Warcraft and images of Warhammer side-by-side in a courtroom, especially in the 1990s , a jury of people would say that’s IP infringement.

Originally Posted by shovelquest [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lorman Warcraft came out of a deal that fell through with games workshop, cloning Dune II with blizzard..

I was wrong that the game originally being a games workshop partnership.

But your video clearly supports the argument they were intending on cloning the Warhammer IP just like they were cloning Dune II's gameplay.

(Your own video calls it a dune II clone mind you, Im not making that up.)

[Reiwa]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

None of them copied each other's IP ... except for the original DotA, which was a custom Warcraft 3 map, so it used 100% Blizzard IP (but also made $0).

The law doesn't care about copying gameplay ideas, and in fact it's really hard to protect a gameplay idea under the law: you can't trademark or copyright it, you have to patent it, and for that you need a brand new mechanism worthy of a patent (something never seen in another game before, like the mouse trap in Mouse Trap).

Lawsuits are about copyright/trademark infringement, so they happen when people violate IP. They don't happen when one company takes the gameplay ideas of another. THJ did the former, but if they'd just made their own IP they could have gotten away with doing the latter.

Blizzard claims/claimed that Murlocs were a new and original creation even though they're clearly sahuagin.

[shovelquest]

I’m certain if you put images of Warcraft and images of Warhammer side-by-side in a courtroom, especially in the 1990s , a jury of people would say that’s IP infringement.

Dota is very comparable to Thj.

[Reiwa]

Originally Posted by shovelquest [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I’m certain if you put images of Warcraft and images of Warhammer side-by-side in a courtroom, especially in the 1990s , a jury of people would say that’s IP infringement.

Dota is very comparable to Thj.

It's more that the legal environment has since changed, despite all the salutatory crowing.

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[loramin]

Originally Posted by Reiwa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your argument against ripping off Warhammer is that they actually ripped off the gameplay of Dune 2 while also ripping off the Warhammer art style?

You're putting words into my mouth; I never argued that.

What I argued is that A) none of the games on Shovel's list actually copied the IP of the other (only THJ did that), and B) in the specific case of Warhammer, they did not at any point set out to make a copy of Warhammer.

Their main artist was big fans of Warhammer art (and was heavily inspired by it), and their director at one point emailed GW because he thought skinning the game with Warhammer would make it sell better. But neither of those things make Warcraft a "Warhammer knockoff" (at worst it makes it a game with heavily "knocked off" art on the box) ... nor make this true:

Originally Posted by shovelquest [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I’m certain if you put images of Warcraft and images of Warhammer side-by-side in a courtroom, especially in the 1990s , a jury of people would say that’s IP infringement..

[Reiwa]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I literally posted a video explaining exactly why that's wrong, but if you want to just ignore it, I can't stop you.

Originally Posted by Reiwa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your argument against ripping off Warhammer is that they actually ripped off the gameplay of Dune 2 while also ripping off the Warhammer art style?

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're putting words into my mouth; I never argued that.

I'm talking about the YouTube video you referenced as a trump card.

[loramin]

First you were certain it met the legal criteria for infringement:

Originally Posted by shovelquest [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I’m certain if you put images of Warcraft and images of Warhammer side-by-side in a courtroom, especially in the 1990s , a jury of people would say that’s IP infringement.

Then you downgraded to "it's a clone":

Originally Posted by shovelquest [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But your video clearly supports the argument they were intending on cloning the Warhammer IP just like they were cloning Dune II's gameplay.

(Your own video calls it a dune II clone mind you, Im not making that up.)

Now you've come down to "it's the spiritual father" (in the same way that the first game of any genre is the spirtual father of every other game in that genre):

Originally Posted by shovelquest [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Of course yes, Dune 2 is the father of every RTS.

And it rightly deserves that credit.

Why are you shitting on Dune 2’s legacy?

Want to move those goalposts any further?

[shovelquest]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Want to move those goalposts any further?

You are acting rudely and insensitively.

THIS is where my goalpost remaines:

Originally Posted by shovelquest [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Warhammer, Warcraft 3, dota, league of legends.

All clones of each other: no lawsuits.

EverQuest: who do you think you are using our artwork and stuff? We are the most unique and best quality game how dare you try to clone us!

Your own video literally says the words CLONED dune 2 and Warhammers artwork.

[loramin]

First off, the whole idea that Warcraft was originally Warhammer is just wrong. Some Warcraft artists took inspiration from Warhammer (but didn't directly copy it), and Blizzard's (well, Blizzards' old company's) CEO tried to get a deal to brand the game with Warhammer (which never happened) ... but the game never meant to copy Warhammer or be a Warhammer game.



Second, if it was so easy to prove that Warhammer copied Warhammer ... why didn't GW sue them?

GW is so notoriously litigious then why I asked Google "Is GW litigious?" I got this:

Yes, Games Workshop is litigious, having recently filed a large lawsuit against online sellers for Warhammer intellectual property infringement and facing scrutiny for aggressive tactics and broad claims of copyright and trademark violations against its fan base and other entities. Similarly, The George Washington University has been involved in recent litigation, including a settlement for a breach of contract class-action lawsuit and an ongoing Department of Justice investigation into antisemitic discrimination.

Games Workshop (GW)
Aggressive IP Enforcement: GW has a reputation for being litigious, filing a significant lawsuit in early 2025 against hundreds of online sellers for trademark and copyright infringement related to Warhammer products.
Broad Claims: The company's lawsuits have targeted a wide range of items, including counterfeit miniatures, logos on products, and even related merchandise like 3D-printed helmets, cosplay gear, or items with the "Warhammer" name.
Criticism: Critics and content creators have accused GW of using aggressive, potentially predatory legal tactics, with some lawsuits being deemed baseless and causing financial damage to innocent parties.
Previous Legal Setbacks: A 2010 lawsuit established that GW could not claim copyright over products they do not produce, such as the concept of "myetic spores".

[shovelquest]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

First off, the whole idea that Warcraft was originally Warhammer is just wrong. Some Warcraft artists took inspiration from Warhammer (but didn't directly copy it), and Blizzard's (well, Blizzards' old company's) CEO tried to get a deal to brand the game with Warhammer (which never happened) ... but the game never meant to copy Warhammer or be a Warhammer game.

If they were inspired, and tried to make it to appeal to games workshop to make a deal, and after they said no then it changed from Warhammer to an identical looking game called Warcraft....then it was originally Warhammer. Period. No debate.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Second, if it was so easy to prove that Warhammer copied Warhammer ... why didn't GW sue them?

GW is so notoriously litigious then why I asked Google "Is GW litigious?" I got this:

Honestly, idk. I always thought it was insane.

Even more so when OH LOW AND BEHOLD

another "COINKIDINK" [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But probably because back then even the big games were dominated by a more pirate like anti corporate culture than they are now.