Best solo melee class?

[zelld52]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Even untwinked I think a melee Bard would do suprisingly well compared to an untwinked Monk levels 1-45. I'll probably do a writeup in the evening.



I don't think anybody was suggesting Bard melee is more efficient than the other options Bards have. Bard melee simply isn't as bad as people think when comparing to other melee classes who don't have charming/swarm kiting as options.

bard doesnt get double attack, dont get any special attacks, and cant use any 2h weapons. they simply, mathematically, cannot be on par with the other melee classes.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by zelld52 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

they [bard] simply, mathematically, cannot be on par with the other melee classes.

This is not always correct, and I was talking about levels 1-45 or so. The metric for XPing is kills per hour. This is a combination of variables including DPS, Recovery Time, and Pull time. Let me give a simple example:

Level 40 Human Bard (1/12 HP Regen Standing/Sitting with using hymn of Restoration while sitting)

Level 40 Human Monk (6/8 HP Regen Standing/Sitting with using Mend on cooldown)

Both characters have the same stats:
100 STR
100 DEX
1200 HP

Bard is using Vilia's Verses of Celerity (20% Haste) + Tuyen's Chant of Flame (21 DoT damage per Tick) + Selo's Consonant Chain (~25% slow).

Monk is using Mend on cooldown. 1200 x 0.25 = 300 / 360 = 0.833 × 6 seconds = 5 HP per tick.

Hymn of Resoration gives you between 2 and 13 HP per tick, depending on level. At 40 it should give you 9 HP per tick.

Mob is level 35 with 1000 HP and does 8 DPS.

This example is Classic EQ (No Expansions) Solo Self Found:

1. Human Bard Dual Wielding Dragoon Dirk (0.26 ratio) + Obsidian Scimitar (0.26 ratio) using my DPS Calculator:

• 7 Melee DPS + 3.5 DoT DPS = 10.5 DPS.
• 95 Seconds Kill.
• 760 Damage Taken × 0.75 via Slow = 570 - 16 HP from Regen = 554 Damage Taken.
• 12 HP Regen including Hymn Sitting = 277 second recovery.
• 372 seconds total per kill.

2. Human Monk Dual Wielding Bare Fists (0.375 ratio) using my DPS calculator:

• 11.25 Melee DPS + 5 DPS Flying Kick (guesstimate) = 16.25 DPS
• 61 second kill.
• 488 Damage Taken - 60 HP from Mend + Regen = 428 Damage Taken.
• 8 HP Regen including Mend Sitting = 321 Seconds.
• 382 seconds total.

The bard in this scenario is melee killing and recovering at the same rate as the monk with worse ratio weapons.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I also realized Lute of the Howler is clickable at 40, going off of Vivitron's post. At levels 40+ you would certainly be on par with a Warrior if you have a Lute of the Howler, even if the Warrior has eyepatch (20% haste). Saving a song by not casting haste song would allow another song to be played for better survivability or perhaps more damage.

To clarify, when I said 40+, I was still referring to the level range of 1-45, so levels 40-45 or so. Warriors 51+ will start to pull farther ahead of Bards melee-wise, and they get triple attack at 60. Bards do get better DoTs, but I am not sure if they are enough to bridge the gap. I am not sure how much DPS a level 60 bard can do with DoTs while meleeing.

[Goregasmic]

I mean warrior is known to be the second worst class to level so I'm not sure you'd want to emulate a shitty version of that. It is possible and if someone wants to do that then by all means do so but when you have access to groups/charm/swarming I don't see any reason you'd go that route. The way I see it is like picking a chanter and root rot/nuke your way to 60. You can but why?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I mean warrior is known to be the second worst class to level so I'm not sure you'd want to emulate a shitty version of that. It is possible and if someone wants to do that then by all means do so but when you have access to groups/charm/swarming I don't see any reason you'd go that route. The way I see it is like pcking a chanter and root rot/nuke your way to 60. You can but why?

The utility of a Bard would make the leveling experience nicer than a Warrior. Bard DPS isn't as bad as you would think from at least levels 1-45 or so, and Bards have the edge when it comes to pulling and recovery times.

Some people prefer to level in a way that's fun for them, rather than the optimal way. A Bard with a Fungi + Seahorse Belt + SBoZ + BoC should level pretty quickly in the lower levels based on my understanding if they wanted to melee. It wouldn't be like leveling a Rogue/Warrior. It would probably be closer to leveling a Paladin/Shadowknight/Ranger.

[Goregasmic]

I appreciate demonstrating the fact that it is kind of viable but you're still spending like 150k to turn a class into something it is not really when you could spend a fraction of that and level 10x faster. Or put that money on a class that does the same thing but better.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by Vivitron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Overall bards are the casterest of the hybrids and probably not what someone asking for a melee alt is looking for. I agree with Vexenu that they melee better than people give them credit for, that their solo melee is overshadowed by pbaoe/charm if you're willing to take advantage those, and that a duo/trio with another twink melee can be surprisingly solid.

I have a 57 bard twink I have been slowly leveling. I haven't tried much toe-to-toe, but I have mixed in some attempts at fear+melee (although I have primarily leveled with charm or pbaoe). l was able to clear bloodgills while they were still blue using just fear+melee. I have drums of the beast and lute of the howler, though. Harder to justify melee without those: lute illusion gives 40% haste without costing a song and prime hand drum lets you drum dot while meleeing, so you snare/fear/3xdrum. A similarly geared monk can clear it too, I've heard.

Agree with this and what the other bards are saying. A venomous axe lets you rip through the teens and 20s, especially since bards tend to have good dex. At higher levels melee is still possible, especially since you can always mez and regen halfway through a fight, but it really did fall off hard as a viable playstyle in the 30s and 40s as charm comes online and mobs get tougher. I would mildly disagree at calling drum-dotting with Drums of the Beast with an offhand weapon "meleeing" though. That's just adding a little dps to the drum-dots.

In the context of OP's question, in addition to being the "casterest of the hybrids", the other thing about bards I'd note is that they thrive in random ad-hoc duos and trios. So if you're intent on only soloing you'll skip one of the most fun aspects of playing a bard, but on the other hand if you're up for grabbing a random duo with whomever else is soloing nearby, it might be a factor in favor of choosing a bard. But if you're looking for pure hack-and-slash all the way to 60, probably not the best option.

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yea bards are probably the best dungeon crawlers until 51. With moderate twinkage I was doing stuff and killing at a rate that even an enc couldn’t keep up with. This did involve mixing in charm but still crazy good. Even though their aoe mez is one tick it’s really effective still into the mid 40s. Fantastic class that unfortunately ends up swarming as their stuff just doesn’t scale as well 51+. I will say though if I had epic at 46 I would have liked to try more things as melee + chant dots is a ton of dps.

Yeah one thing bard is great at is zero-downtime fighting, especially with charming or a duo. But the aoe mez has been nerfed to not land on anything above level 25.

[Vivitron]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would mildly disagree at calling drum-dotting with Drums of the Beast with an offhand weapon "meleeing" though. That's just adding a little dps to the drum-dots.

You melee prime hand too, just pop the drum in as the dot lands. Probably a bit under half the dps comes from melee.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by Vivitron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You melee prime hand too, just pop the drum in as the dot lands. Probably a bit under half the dps comes from melee.

Oh yeah that makes sense. I'm jealous of your instruments, still a ways away from getting them.

[Duik]

Now i see why bard epic is useful as a melee bard. Not so much for the ratio and the white damage but the instrument mod.
What a newb i am.