Which race is better for Paladin: Dwarf or Half Elf?

[sajbert]

Originally Posted by Bockscar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It actually isn't. You can get agility if you choose to wear a shitty item, but in all likelihood, your BIS pre-Velious contains no item that gives agility. Or, if it does, it's some obscure shit like (in the case of paladins) planar legs. And then you get to Kunark where your class set has no stats at all except for the chest and legs which most players won't have access to. It's not until you get to Velious endgame content that you can just count on having agility on items that you wanted to wear anyway. Up until then, it takes either gear that most players won't have (e.g. Kunark set bp/legs) or items that you wouldn't normally wear but need to do so in order to get the agility. This is why you raise it to 75 just so you don't have to wear a fucking Serpentine Bracer like a moron.

But since you’d be dumping attribute points into it you’d basically have a serpentine bracer (or djarn’s) that gives you 5 sta or wis or cha - whatever you spent points on. And sure there’s fungi penalty (and someone mentioned lodi shield?) but there are valorium greaves, hiero cloak, spiked seahorse hide belt, deepwater greaves, shroud of veeshan, 6-necks. Sure you may be stuck with the one suboptimal piece for a while like a forest loop but that’s no biggie to me in the grand scheme of things. For the same reason I wouldn’t slap 20 starting str on a rogue and no one would bat an eyebrow at that.

I still say 5 agi on ogre, erudite and dwarf is a trap.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by sajbert [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But since you’d be dumping attribute points into it you’d basically have a serpentine bracer (or djarn’s) that gives you 5 sta or wis or cha - whatever you spent points on. And sure there’s fungi penalty (and someone mentioned lodi shield?) but there are valorium greaves, hiero cloak, spiked seahorse hide belt, deepwater greaves, shroud of veeshan, 6-necks. Sure you may be stuck with the one suboptimal piece for a while like a forest loop but that’s no biggie to me in the grand scheme of things. For the same reason I wouldn’t slap 20 starting str on a rogue and no one would bat an eyebrow at that.

I still say 5 agi on ogre, erudite and dwarf is a trap.

Agreed. Velious items are loaded with agility. Silly way to throw away 5 creation points.

[Bockscar]

I mean, I was literally talking specifically about 5 agi on ogre/erudite/dwarf. I wasn't advocating for raising agility on the races that already start with 75+. The stat is pure garbage if you have 75 already.

It's a very small price to pay, dumping five points into it in order to never have to worry about it at all. Otherwise you have to wear some agility item at all times, and up until Velious, you are at best paying out the nose for something like a Necklace of Superiority, just to not wear something truly awful for the sheer sake of getting those agility points. That's why the races that don't start with 75+ agi need to dump five points into it.

[Snaggles]

As a casual raider for now I’m wearing a djarns. The AC drop was milder than I assumed and I just wanted the raw hps.

[Gustoo]

The reason wasting 5 points on agility is required is because I’m thinking from a vanilla pvp perspective, where you may or may not have any stat adding items for a long time.

Same with skipping charisma. You can lull with fails and be passable. It’s a sacrifice but you get 5 mr and way better melee stats during a time where stats are scarce and trolls are going to be pummeling you.

A dwarf with all points to charisma and 5 to agi might be a good long term blended build, going full wisdom is just saying whatever I’m gunna ignore the weak lulls in exchange for better in every other category

[sajbert]

Originally Posted by Gustoo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The reason wasting 5 points on agility is required is because I’m thinking from a vanilla pvp perspective, where you may or may not have any stat adding items for a long time.

Same with skipping charisma. You can lull with fails and be passable. It’s a sacrifice but you get 5 mr and way better melee stats during a time where stats are scarce and trolls are going to be pummeling you.

A dwarf with all points to charisma and 5 to agi might be a good long term blended build, going full wisdom is just saying whatever I’m gunna ignore the weak lulls in exchange for better in every other category

From a PvP perspective lulls probably won't be your priority and instead wisdom will be. I doubt it'll take long to get something like a serpentine bracer, which effectively would be a 4 agi 5 wisdom 3 dex bracer, not bad!

[Bockscar]

Originally Posted by sajbert [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

From a PvP perspective lulls probably won't be your priority and instead wisdom will be. I doubt it'll take long to get something like a serpentine bracer, which effectively would be a 4 agi 5 wisdom 3 dex bracer, not bad!

It's still a 1 AC bracer on a tank class. It sucks.

[sajbert]

Originally Posted by Bockscar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's still a 1 AC bracer on a tank class. It sucks.

Tell me more how you will ever notice a loss of 4 ac.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by sajbert [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Tell me more how you will ever notice a loss of 4 ac.

Furthermore they mentioned pvp server, where iirc dex/agi seems to be more helpful?

[Gustoo]

It would be easier to be a high elf from day one but most of their advantage goes away if you put points into melee stats and you still end up with bad melee stats. If you’re making a character during velious era the choice makes
More sense.