Game Mechanics: AC/Level Mitigation & Backstabs

[azeth]

Originally Posted by Supaskillz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am pretty sure your attack factors into your max backstab, ragebringer significantly increase your attack so I would not expect these numbers that you are using would be the same as using an efreeti war spear

good point about seething fury.

[Aadill]

Originally Posted by azeth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

good point about seething fury.

I was thinking the same thing. I posted back on page 1 about that but I don't recall if Seething Fury is +40 or +some other number. With that said, that extra ATK might also make a difference that isn't being accounted for in logs because people are parsing but not giving important data like their ATK value

[Dazen]

It's 40% to Haste , 30 to AC, and 40 to attack. I sure hope this gets fixed sometime soon.

[Wiz]

A fix on this problem would be appricated!

[Arkyani]

Just curious if there has been any progress with this problem? Its been on-going for quite a while and havent had much feedback if any. Thanks much. in advance if possible.

[dojo420]

Just wondering about what was said earlier: Is it a fact that attack increases max damage? I never played a melee dps on live but from what I remember and read while investigating this current issue I was under the impression it only increased the chance to hit for max damage (it gets compared to the defender's AC).

Simply put, the higher your attack is relative to a mob's defense, the harder, on average, you will hit it. But your min and max hit stay the same (outside of special things like "weak" mobs to certain types, spell effects that increase multipliers, whatever).

source

Maybe I misunderstood the comment on Seething Fury.

[Arkyani]

No dev response in over a month. Any chance we could maybe get some feedback regarding this bug? As a rogue with one single combat skill that is broken, its pretty depressing.

[Aadill]

Just because you haven't heard any feedback doesn't mean it's not being investigated. I'm sure it is depressing but all the posts of, "omg this is so broken fix it!" with no actual valuable information and multiple pages of discussion not related to the topic doesn't make a dev want to wade through everything to find any useful data. Look, if you want something done, actually prove the math is wrong. No one has done this except by saying, "this doesn't seem right, despite the dev getting lab-based results exactly as he expected/wanted them," and providing HALF the information required to recreate an experiment. Obviously those results are not relating to the "real world" so to speak, so find out why.

You using an SCD is important information, but so is your ATK. SCD gives a magic number right around minimum damage for backstab at level 60. If there is ANY AC mitigation it's dropping you to 120 in a hot minute... it's 10 points of damage off from minimum... so you should expect that. With a higher ATK you may NOT hit for the minimum as much because you may overcome the mob's AC mitigation. With that said, if Kanras is using a Ragebringer which inherently adds ATK, are we seeing the correct values for the game or for the weapon? That's why you need this information included in your parses.

Your strength is important information because if the backstab formula directly uses STR, it needs to be known.

If you are not 60, Kanras needs to know what your skills are at. Frankly it should be included ANYWAY in case Kanras isn't limited by the skill levels from classic era on the test server (he should be but he should double check).

A parse of a rogue using disciplines and leaving that data in skews the data. Stop that.

If people provide useful information they can get useful results. If the AC mitigation portion of all melee is the problem then that is a issue of editing the formula or hand-tuning all the mobs for different AC values. Hope for the former. If this is JUST related to backstab, then the data above should be substantial enough to recreate a character and do some real testing, assuming Kanras isn't already doing that:

No Ragebringer, it's not in game. Use SCD and Crystalline Spear/Rapier of Orin (common rogue weapons)
No non-classic/Kunark ATK buffs.
No non-classic/Kunark mobs
Timeline-appropriate character stats.

[Baxter]

Getting max stats is very easy. Assume piercing is capped as well as backstab skills. At 60 having 255 str results in 1181 atk. With shrunken goblin skull earring atk raises to 1188.

I've looked all over the internet for an old parse of rogue damage, but I just cant find anything. Perhaps someone has a really old hard drive they can pull one from. haha not likely.

[Aadill]

Originally Posted by Baxter [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Getting max stats is very easy. Assume piercing is capped as well as backstab skills. At 60 having 255 str results in 1181 atk. With shrunken goblin skull earring atk raises to 1188.

Useful info. Mad props. If Kanras used those values and a weapon other than a Ragebringer I wonder if he would see what rogues are seeing or still something different. If it's different I'd be majorly concerned. If it's the same it just needs some tweaking.