Numerical Proof of Kunark Experience Discrepencies

[Sabin76]

Originally Posted by chowdah555 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Along the way on live, they eventually evened out the XP per level in the 50s and eliminated the hell levels. It was the same total XP but a more linear in progression. Is it possible we're somehow on that formula now?

I have seen this said several times, but I can't seem to find the patch notes that address it. I seem to recall someone mentioning that it happened at the same time class penalties got removed (which would be the January 17, 2001 patch), but nothing in that lengthy letter about experience has to do with smoothing out the 50-60 progression. But even if true, we are a long ways off from that.

Even if it happened earlier in the timeline, it would be hard to imagine the XP progression being changed a little over a month after they even introduced those levels.

[Gorster]

Originally Posted by Sabin76 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have seen this said several times, but I can't seem to find the patch notes that address it. I seem to recall someone mentioning that it happened at the same time class penalties got removed (which would be the January 17, 2001 patch), but nothing in that lengthy letter about experience has to do with smoothing out the 50-60 progression. But even if true, we are a long ways off from that.

Even if it happened earlier in the timeline, it would be hard to imagine the XP progression being changed a little over a month after they even introduced those levels.

- We have smoothed out level progression from 50-60. This should
mitigate the "penalty effect" that occurs in levels 51, 54 and 59. Note
that it will cost the same experience to level from 50 to 60 as it did
before. Also, death experience loss will appear different in some
levels. This is an unfortunate side effect that must remain to prevent
some experience exploits.


September 4th 2002 patch.

[Sabin76]

Originally Posted by Gorster [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

- We have smoothed out level progression from 50-60. This should
mitigate the "penalty effect" that occurs in levels 51, 54 and 59. Note
that it will cost the same experience to level from 50 to 60 as it did
before. Also, death experience loss will appear different in some
levels. This is an unfortunate side effect that must remain to prevent
some experience exploits.


September 4th 2002 patch.

....so almost a full year after our timeline ends. Once again, that leaves us with two options:

1. There is a bug in the amount of XP needed for levels 55+ on Green.

2. Everything that we thought we knew about XP progression from 55-60 was wrong (note that the information seems to line up well before then). It was implemented incorrectly on Blue, reinforcing that we thought we knew it, and now we have the "correct" progression on Green without being told there was a change or why.

[Gustoo]

The main thing is to kill monsters until you hit level 60 and then kill monsters again and again to get your favorite items.

I mean back on live I cared a lot more about "Hell" levels but now I don't even notice them.

[Sabin76]

Sure, but being a caster means that levels (and the spells that come with them) are the most important "piece of equipment" you can get. That and if there's a bug, it should be fixed.

[Gustoo]

Originally Posted by Sabin76 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sure, but being a caster means that levels (and the spells that come with them) are the most important "piece of equipment" you can get. That and if there's a bug, it should be fixed.

All characters are 100% level dependent. No doubt there.

[bivouac]

Check out the eq.stratics reference on the P99 wiki Experience page. Despite a note on our wiki saying it's out of era, the earliest snapshot is during Velious. It shows 51-53 as regular hell, 54-58 as double hell, 59 as triple hell, and 60 as regular hell. The ratios match up pretty nicely to the OPs data, too.

[Sabin76]

Originally Posted by bivouac [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Check out the eq.stratics reference on the P99 wiki Experience page. Despite a note on our wiki saying it's out of era, the earliest snapshot is during Velious. It shows 51-53 as regular hell, 54-58 as double hell, 59 as triple hell, and 60 as regular hell. The ratios match up pretty nicely to the OPs data, too.

Now that IS interesting. Looks like Option 2 is gaining traction here.

[ewjax]

Originally Posted by bivouac [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Check out the eq.stratics reference on the P99 wiki Experience page. Despite a note on our wiki saying it's out of era, the earliest snapshot is during Velious. It shows 51-53 as regular hell, 54-58 as double hell, 59 as triple hell, and 60 as regular hell. The ratios match up pretty nicely to the OPs data, too.

Wow. Well those values at least match the observed data I'm seeing for levels 52-54 much closer.

My observed data: Human Enchanter, soloing Howling Stones entry area mobs:

Level / Kills Per 1% Exp Gain / Comment
52 / 1.14
53 / 1.33 / A bit harder than 52, no surprise
54 / 2.86 / Significantly harder than 53. Definitely a hell level compared to 52.
55 / 3.41 / Should have been easier than 54??? Clearly not. Something is up.

The patch message mentioned in the P99 wiki:

September 4, 2002 3:00 am
** Experience Changes **
- We have smoothed out level progression from 50-60. This should mitigate the "penalty effect" that occurs in levels 51, 54 and 59. Note that it will cost the same experience to level from 50 to 60 as it did before. Also, death experience loss will appear different in some levels. This is an unfortunate side effect that must remain to prevent some experience exploits.
Note: The above "XP smoothing" is not in effect on P99, and is not planned on the P99 Development Timeline.

Comments:
1. This patch is supposedly not in effect for P99
2. Even if it somehow is, it claims that "the total amount of exp required from 50-60 hasn't changed" but if the wayback eq.stratics hell level multipliers are accurate, that is certainly not true with those numbers. Using wiki mutipliers, human enchanter required 618M exp to reach 60. Using the eq.stratics multipliers, the new total is 737M exp.

My memory from that time recalls that 54 and 59 were really rough, and the intervening levels much less so. The patch message says they attempted to smooth that out. Well, if the math from the old eq.stratics website is accurate, they smoothed it out by making the easier 55-58 harder, not by making 54 and 59 easier.

[Absolus]

Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but if they dramatically lowered the xp required for 59 then the penalty for deaths in 60 is much lower than it used to be. Now let's discuss the impact of this so early.