[Serious] Lets talk Top raiding guilds and their behavior

[JackofSpade]

Originally Posted by Beldan4 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

...Join red. problem solved. No neckbeard. Mobs are NOT on a variable timer.

you red players come across as so pathetic, it turns off people who might be on the fence about making a toon there. Y'all sound so desperate and it makes it seem like your server is a boring ghost town that is dying, so you beg in unrelated threads for people to join

[strongNpretty]

Originally Posted by JackofSpade [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you red players come across as so pathetic, it turns off people who might be on the fence about making a toon there. Y'all sound so desperate and it makes it seem like your server is a boring ghost town that is dying, so you beg in unrelated threads for people to join

Relax man.

[Praxcthius]

so if you get trained according to what you've said then you can request concessions literally on any mob that's still up after a quake. I see. hmm by saying you had to "clear" mobs for ltk again.... get caught up in the now. the meta is to train all of west tov to drop down. git gud. and being butthurt that another guild killed a mob 1,2,3,4 zones away. Kittens it's really deplorable how you embrace victimhood. now on one hand count how many times you've been trained by other guilds. ok. now on the Other hand count how many times you have trained yourself. I'm guessing the latter is by far exponentially greater than the former.

[Duckwalk]

In a vacuum that makes sense however in reality this was more of a straw that broke the camel‘s back type situation. Prior trains and prior concessions, in some cases left unfulfilled, plus multiple pieces of evidence pointing to a direct and malicious intent on incubo’s behalf, and incontrovertible proof of wrong doing led to a desire to get a firm ruling and/or punishment.

Take that for what you will.

[xdrcfrx]

there's also a material difference between, say training the other guild pulling mobs over the aary stairs in the hall, vs. the train incubo dumped on kwsm at the west exit.

one is just a consequence of the competitive atmosphere, and should be handled exactly as you have described.

The other wasn't really a raid-related mistake made in the heat of the moment, and should not be treated the same way.

It's like in football - personal fowl during play? 15 yards. Personal fowl after the play / on the side lines? ejected from the game.

You need to look at this more critically than just "train = the same in all situations."

[Duckwalk]

Right, and from what I remember the video was very convienently cut right at that moment seeming to indicate there was more discussion on the matter let out of the video.
Maybe thats just paranoia but prior immediate history between Kittens and AG would lend to the notion that the extremely reckless at best actions of Incubo were potentially far most malicious, especially considering the circumstances and competition for similar mobs during an EQ.

[Xulia]

From what I've seen in the UN channel, Freedom has been proven to not get as many targets as KWSM but wants to continually use bully tactics (Dogpiling, veiled threats, etc.) to keep them from joining in the discussion. It's disturbing that this behavior is playing out not only in the UN but in RNF as well with no oversight from GMs and nothing from AG leadership calling it out. If they wanted to actually curb toxicity it's playing out right in front of them. I'm hoping that the wheels of justice turn slow, and the GMs are monitoring RNF as well as the UN.

[Dreenk317]

Originally Posted by Xulia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

From what I've seen in the UN channel, Freedom has been proven to not get as many targets as KWSM but wants to continually use bully tactics (Dogpiling, veiled threats, etc.) to keep them from joining in the discussion. It's disturbing that this behavior is playing out not only in the UN but in RNF as well with no oversight from GMs and nothing from AG leadership calling it out. If they wanted to actually curb toxicity it's playing out right in front of them. I'm hoping that the wheels of justice turn slow, and the GMs are monitoring RNF as well as the UN.

Couple points here.

1. Why is AG leadership responsible for what Freedom does?

2. There has been response from the GM's. They told Kittens that this new agreement had to be made by AG/F/R. As had been originally banned and asked to come up with an agreement between them to reduce the petition quest. Why does kittens think they are part of that?

[Xulia]

Originally Posted by Dreenk317 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Couple points here.

1. Why is AG leadership responsible for what Freedom does?

I never said they were responsible for them. However in the context of raiding, AG partners with Freedom for many targets that are the listed in this ban while Riot does them alone, but they're acting like they're two separate entities. Why are you trying to put words in my mouth?

Originally Posted by Dreenk317 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

2. There has been response from the GM's. They told Kittens that this new agreement had to be made by AG/F/R. As had been originally banned and asked to come up with an agreement between them to reduce the petition quest. Why does kittens think they are part of that?

Because they are able to achieve more of the targets listed as raid targets than Freedom is, but the rules are being dictated by a guild that isn't capable of taking down those targets on their own. KWSM - and any guild that can raid - has every right to be a part of discussion on rules that affect them regardless of the guilds that were banned. If the rules are going to affect everyone, why should only a select few be able to provide input?

[Dreenk317]

Originally Posted by Xulia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I never said they were responsible for them. However in the context of raiding, AG partners with Freedom for many targets that are the listed in this ban while Riot does them alone, but they're acting like they're two separate entities. Why are you trying to put words in my mouth?

You are the one that called out AG for not calling out Freedom. I put no words in your mouth. You are trying to hold AG responsible for not policing another guild. Sorry AG doesnt behave like Riot and try to tell everyone how to play this game.

Originally Posted by Xulia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because they are able to achieve more of the targets listed as raid targets than Freedom is, but the rules are being dictated by a guild that isn't capable of taking down those targets on their own. KWSM - and any guild that can raid - has every right to be a part of discussion on rules that affect them regardless of the guilds that were banned. If the rules are going to affect everyone, why should only a select few be able to provide input?

If they want in on the negotiations, they need to be in on the problem. They were not/are not part of the problem, and choose to be non competitive. Freedom is part of the problem, and choose to be very competitive. That i s why kittens is not part of this and freedom is. As others have said, if kittens wants in, they can join the raid ban. Instead of trying to call shots from the sidelines.