green is the new wow

[douglas1999]

Nobody would be here if there wasn't more to it than nostalgia for shitty blurry graphics from 1999. Wow and eq2 were almost identical games when they launched and I don't have any desire to play either of them ever again

[Jibartik]

Recon, you couldnt even make it through 2 treant cycles before making an R&F cus you were swindled off them how can you say this game is easy lol

[DMN]

Can't believe you dumb fucks responding to this stupid as thread. The OP is an obvious retardojoe alt.

[DMN]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can't believe you dumb fucks responding to this stupid as thread. The OP is an obvious retardojoe alt.

Gets it.

[Jibartik]

Hmm think about this:

wow:

press 1 2 and 4.. 1 2 and 4 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 1 2 and 4 1 2 and 4

everquest: lull this mob, 2.5 mins, mez, sit memorize spell, stand up, cast, sit memorize spell, cast.

run around corner, wait...

path walks by GRAB IT, pull to corner /pet back off

run to other corner wait.....

wait.....


OK im just using one example but I feel the difference in everquest play is vastly more complicated than wow's, am I wrong? Tell me why.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hmm think about this:

wow:

press 1 2 and 4.. 1 2 and 4 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 1 2 and 4 1 2 and 4

everquest: lull this mob, 2.5 mins, mez, sit memorize spell, stand up, cast, sit memorize spell, cast.

run around corner, wait...

path walks by GRAB IT, pull to corner /pet back off

run to other corner wait.....

wait.....


OK im just using one example but I feel the difference in everquest play is vastly more complicated than wow's, am I wrong? Tell me why.

Agree with you. At the time WoW seemed so much more complex, complicated, and involved because of how many different abilities you had etc. It was insane compared to the bare minimum amount non caster classes had for example. But eventually you come to the realization that it’s exactly as you described, just hitting the same cycle of numbers over and over and half your abilities you never really use

[Danth]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

OK im just using one example but I feel the difference in everquest play is vastly more complicated than wow's, am I wrong? Tell me why.

Depends on what example you want to cherry-pick. Counterpoint: Stereotypical EQ high-elf cleric bored housewife gets carried to greatness in groups and raids while merely sitting there clicking heal once in awhile. Next to no game knowledge required, much less any drive or individual initiative. Doesn't even have to know what half her own spellbook does, far be it from knowing anyone else's. At the mechanic level either game can be as tough or as easy as the player in question wants it to be. EQ I think has a higher ceiling because Sony tended to let players run with unexpected tactics while Blizzard habitually squashes out anything that wasn't done "its way." The floor of both games is quite low, but I'll argue EQ's floor is lower--it's easier to carry deadweight in EQ (and more of it) than it is in WoW.

Tuning: also a mixed bag, with the caveat that difficulty in Warcraft was mostly patched out once the bads started crying and gobbling that they couldn't win. The main difference here was that WoW's lack of penalty for failure meant bad players in that game never developed the timidity or risk aversion that's so often seen in EQ. Nobody was ever afraid to try to raid Onyxia for fear of losing their corpses akin to what could happen in a failed Fearplane break-in! However, death penalty is not precisely the same as raw difficulty, and Warcraft did not (originally, at least) want for difficulty: pick-up groups could and did routinely fail, leading to the screaming and whining that I mentioned earlier. The wife and I can duo most "group" content on P1999; we most certainly could not duo the top Warcraft instances. Mauradon was the top one that we could solo or duo almost entirely.

Both games have their difficulty and their easy sections, but EQ becomes much more memorable because of the way EQ hits the player like a hammer when he makes a mistake. Take that away--as in your case of the Enchanter who dies 500 times because he has a rezbot Cleric parked and doesn't care--and it becomes largely a wash between the two games.

**I do not mention PvP because I'm an elitist who regards ALL roleplaying game PvP as inherently easymode bunnyhill stuff for newbies. It's beneath my dignity.

Danth

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I do not mention PvP because I'm an elitist who regards ALL roleplaying game PvP as inherently easymode bunnyhill stuff for newbies. It's beneath my dignity.

That doesn't make you elitist, it makes you dumb or ignorant. PvP in a good game is far more intricate and skill-intensive than PvE. This a true of Everquest PvP because it's everything you already need to be doing in PvE anyway, with the added danger of PvP and needing to be prepare for it.

[Pint]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That doesn't make you elitist, it makes you dumb or ignorant. PvP in a good game is far more intricate and skill-intensive than PvE. This a true of Everquest PvP because it's everything you already need to be doing in PvE anyway, with the added danger of PvP and needing to be prepare for it.

Totally. Nobody is in it for the pixels and raiding takes skill too. Nailed it bud.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That doesn't make you elitist, it makes you dumb or ignorant. PvP in a good game is far more intricate and skill-intensive than PvE. This a true of Everquest PvP because it's everything you already need to be doing in PvE anyway, with the added danger of PvP and needing to be prepare for it.

Being more skill-intensive than beating up dumb AI (which is factually accurate) is faint praise indeed. When I want to compete against other humans I do so in an environment that's actually suited for it. I'll be fair and admit that notion is somewhat out of place in a specific EQ-vs-Warcraft discussion so we can leave it at that instead of derailing the thread.

-------------------------------------

Sunken Temple was a neat zone, large enough that relatively few groups wanted to do the entire thing. I visualized its basic design as akin to two tires stacked on top of each other. Most groups did either boss speedruns or at most cleared through the upper "tire." I do not recollect it being particularly difficult, though, provided groups took it with care and did not attempt rushing like mad. I read someplace that the zone was rebuilt and made much smaller later on? If so, too bad.

Counting town in group chat so a couple of Rogues could "dual sap" (made possible if done correctly due to network latency) was something I did once in awhile.

Danth