cannabis as an Alternative medicine

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ty for the neuroscience data from the time period when we were just finding out about microorganisms. Lol. Back then they thought bad odors caused disease and that frogs were spotaneously created in dirt, too. That was what passed for science then, so I’d be a little skeptical of citing observations from the 1850s as evidence of anything.

Known since the 1850s. There are plenty of modern studies that back it up, and I just cited the Colorado statistics from 2013. But hey, if you don't want to give your pot up that's up to you.

[Cecily]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Known since the 1850s. There are plenty of modern studies that back it up, and I just cited the Colorado statistics from 2013. But hey, if you don't want to give your pot up that's up to you.

Like everything else you can consume:

Alle Dinge sind Gift, und nichts ist ohne Gift, allein die Dosis macht dass ein Ding kein Gift ist.
All things are poison, and nothing is without poison, the dosage alone makes it so a thing is not a poison.
—Paracelsus

That’s the basic principle of toxicology which is true of any drug, including pot. You are technically right, marijuana can be neurotoxic in chronic high amounts. With lesser amounts it’s thought to be neuroprotective. Kinda like how acetaminophen can stop a headache and fever or destroy your liver. If you swallow a bottle of Tylenol, you may die, slowly, from liver damage, therefore Tylenol is poison is not the right conclusion to make.

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/91a...1ded5ae571.pdf

I don’t smoke pot btw.

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/91a...1ded5ae571.pdf

So I was curious enough to read your review, but I'm not sure I agree with their conclusions. A few snippets.

The review: "CB1 receptor acting cannabinoid agonists protected hippocampal neurons from synaptically-mediated excitotoxicity" (Abood et al. 2001). Abood & co put neurons into a solution containing kainate, which triggers neuron receptors intended for the neurotransmitter glutamate, triggering the neurons into an excited state. Cannibinoids then reversed this. So cannabis can protect you from a glutamate storm but this should not be happening in a healthy brain. It's mostly when the neurons die, due to stroke (or, perhaps, smoking pot?!) that it becomes a problem.

The review: "Additionally, the role of endogenous cannabinoid system is suggested to be neuroprotective" (Guzman et al. 2001; Mechoulam et al. 2002). This one is probably the most supportive of your view, stating: "Regarding the central nervous system, most of the experimental evidence indicates that cannabinoids may protect neurons from toxic insults such as glutamaergic overstimulation, ischemia and oxidative damage. In contrast, cannabinoids induce apoptosis of glioma cells in culture and regression of malignant gliomas in vivo." Gliomas are brain cancer cells, so killing them is good.

The review: "Other synthetic cannabinoid WIN55 and 2122 administered daily (twice, 2 mg/kg) to rats increased hippocampal granule cell density and dendritic length in the CA3 pyramidal cell layer" (Chan et al. 1996). Chan's abstract does not mention this, and instead points out that

• Convulsions and hyperactivity were observed in dosed rats and mice; the onset and frequency were dose related
• delta 9-THC administration for 13 weeks induced testicular atrophy and uterine and ovarian hypoplasia; the lesions persisted in a 9-week recovery period
• There was no evidence that delta 9-THC was carcinogenic in rats or mice (some cancer rates actually went down; it looks like they didn't have enough statistical power to be confident)

But I would consider convulsions and testicular atrophy to be pretty negative.

I did not check any of the anti-cannabis papers. In the end it was an interesting read, but not enough to really change my mind, although I'm leaving the window open just a bit. Also, I'm not sure how well Paracelsus' famous quote really applies to an addictive substance.

[Cecily]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]Ozone can cause the muscles in the airways to constrict, trapping air in the alveoli. This leads to wheezing and shortness of breath.
Ozone can:
Make it more difficult to breathe deeply and vigorously.
Cause shortness of breath, and pain when taking a deep breath.
Cause coughing and sore or scratchy throat.
Inflame and damage the airways.
Aggravate lung diseases such as asthma, emphysema, and chronic bronchitis.
Increase the frequency of asthma attacks.
Make the lungs more susceptible to infection.
Continue to damage the lungs even when the symptoms have disappeared.
Cause chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD).
These effects have been found even in healthy people, but can be more serious in people with lung diseases such as asthma. They may lead to increased school absences, medication use, visits to doctors and emergency rooms, and hospital admissions.
Long-term exposure to ozone is linked to aggravation of asthma, and is likely to be one of many causes of asthma development. Long-term exposures to higher concentrations of ozone may also be linked to permanent lung damage, such as abnormal lung development in children.
Recent studies consistently report associations between short-term ozone exposures and total non-accidental mortality, which includes deaths from respiratory causes. Studies suggest that long-term exposure to ozone also may increase the risk of death from respiratory causes, but the evidence is not as strong as the evidence for short-term exposure.

Also harms plants, reducing their capacity for photosynthesis and slows their growth while making them more susceptible to damage from the environment (insects, pollution,weather).

Ozone also doesn’t have the goddamned common decency to get you high while it damages your lungs like pot does.

[Cecily]

Originally Posted by America [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, you are wrong whereas I am right.

I’m sorry your optimism bias and agreeable nature blind you to the reality of your incorrectness.

[Wonkie]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I’m sorry your optimism bias and agreeable nature blind you to the reality of your incorrectness.

being a bummer all the time isnt an intelligent choice mom

[Cecily]

Muggens is awesome.


Probably cause he smokes pot!

[Cecily]

To reiterate:
A: Everything is poisonous
B: The dose makes the poison.

Water is poisonous in high enough quantities. It’s relative to the substance. You could easily make the argument that addictive substances are more poisonous, particularly if you agree addiction is a disease. My problem is not differentiating between physical and mental addiction. You can demonize a substance whose withdrawal causes physical illness much easier than one that might make you feel off a few days. There’s a huge difference in likelyhood of being able to stop.

[FatherSioux]

Rogan just had a good conversation about this. More informative than you half developed basement boys making shit up.

[Cecily]

This one an abusive father figure?

I wish I had a basement. I also wish I had time to delve into this topic further, but I’m out enjoying the lovely scorched earth scenery of January. I do hope all the hopes pinned on marijuana as an alternative to psych medications prove fruitful. I broke down and asked for an antidepressant yesterday after a decade of swearing them off.

The good thing is it’s getting researched more now, so we’ll have a better picture of the benefits and risks eventually. It’s not going to be completely harmless, especially as a recreational drug, but CBD in particular looks extremely promising.

60 degrees today!

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