Spells: Spell issues: Consolidated

[bubbaray]

So this is no longer a spell issue. This is a class issue. Creating a new thread.

[Grizlor]

Made Tagar's Insects resist mod 25, extra hate 90, moved effect 3 to slot 1
Made Togor's Insects resist mod 15, buff duration 30, extra hate 12
Made Turgur's Insects buff duration 60, extra hate 160, moved effect 3 to slot 1

If the extra hate on these spells is to simulate the disease counter related aggro in classic, then they are not consistent with one another.

Tagar's adds 9 counters, Togor adds 12, and Turgur adds 16. Either Togor is missing a zero, or the other two are too high. Since the tash line of spells are only 10 extra hate, I'd guess that Tagar and Turgur are tenfold what they should be.

I was soloing the NK guards today and tested the aggro on Tagar's, and my pet did about 75% of a guard's health before it actually pulled aggro off me. That doesn't seem right. I know it's high aggro, but I don't remember it being THAT high.

Made Tashan extra hate 10, buff duration 130
Made Tashani extra hate 10, buff duration 130
Made Tashania extra hate 10, buff duration 130
Made Tashanian extra hate 10, buff duration 130

Edit: I guess Tash is only one poison counter, so at 10 threat per, I guess that's right. Still, I remember tash being about the same aggro as my slow in classic/kunark, such that whoever landed their spell first (me or the enchanter) would be the one tanking the monster usually.

I remember poison counters being super high threat until well after POP, because I used to aggro kite for groups in PoFire at the tables and hold aggro just by spamming my level 9 poison DoT.

[Uthgaard]

The goal was to start small and get feedback on the changes to see how they played out. Disease cloud has a lot more extra hate than any other spell with one poison or disease counter. I didn't bring it down to 10 because I didn't want to make a drastic change to a primary threat spell. But it doesn't seem to be getting applied all at once, from what I see with #hatelist. So I probably won't use the extra hate field for threat modifications in the future.

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

Originally Posted by Uthgaard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The goal was to start small and get feedback on the changes to see how they played out. Disease cloud has a lot more extra hate than any other spell with one poison or disease counter. I didn't bring it down to 10 because I didn't want to make a drastic change to a primary threat spell. But it doesn't seem to be getting applied all at once, from what I see with #hatelist. So I probably won't use the extra hate field for threat modifications in the future.

The adjustments to reduce the hate of spells with disease counters didn't happen until April and May of 2002, because shaman were just getting abused. There may have been other adjustments, I will keep looking, but those are the only ones I have found in patch notes, and it matches with my personal experience on live.

Disease cloud really did have crazy snap aggro to it all through classic. I left my shadow knight at level 52 to do Nagafen all through Velious, in fact he is still only 53 on live today despite being created in 1999. I could take aggro from level 60s with velious era weapons who had been engaged for 5-10 seconds with a single disease cloud.

I only messed around for about an hour on the test server, but I found disease cloud to be 100% ineffective at generating aggro at level 51 grouped with various others from level 46 to 53. I'll be happy to do some more detailed testing on thursday or friday this week. I'd be interested in doing some testing with you Uthgaard if we could find a time agreeable for both of us.

[Uthgaard]

I wasn't trying to nerf disease cloud. I was trying to test a method for balancing out spell aggro on the whole. But the extra hate field is being calculated wrong. Instead of being added to the running aggro calc for the spell, it's replacing all previous aggro calcs with whatever is in the field.

[Duma]

The slow component in Selo's Consonant Chain no longer seems to be working.

[Gorgetrapper]

For a quick test, I hopped on my lvl 20 cleric and I was in highpass hold. I rooted a gnoll champion, a DB mob to me, and the spell lasted full duration. Let it come to me, hit me for a little bit, then rooted it again, lasted full duration. No resists etc. So for anyone else, the RNG is being bad for you.

[Xadion]

Shadow Sight has seem to have lost its see invs portion- as dead eye (the lower equivilant) has kept its see invs portion.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=90

I remeber it always giving see invs on classic +

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And not to get into it, but yes D-Cloud agro was a specific nerf that happend either late kunark or velious- shortly before they gave SKs their own "Agro" line of spells.

[Extunarian]

Originally Posted by Gorgetrapper [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For a quick test, I hopped on my lvl 20 cleric and I was in highpass hold. I rooted a gnoll champion, a DB mob to me, and the spell lasted full duration. Let it come to me, hit me for a little bit, then rooted it again, lasted full duration. No resists etc. So for anyone else, the RNG is being bad for you.

Did something change between Sunday and today? Because what I was seeing was way beyond any sort of RNG shitstorm. Last time I logged on (Sunday), mobs in the 32-33 range simply could not be rooted by my 38 chanter.

[Gibcarver]

I am a 50 SK and was PLing a rogue friend in the mistmoore graveyard so I figured I would try some tests on the agro capacity of my spells.
to try and standardize i picked one set of glyphed familiars to use as my test subjects.
One cast pulling the mob with my back turned and a rogue using harpoons(no procs) yielded:
Disease cloud held agro for 20 % of the mob's life
Siphon strength held agro for 60 % of the mobs life
traditionally disease cloud will hold agro off a low level indefinitely. I didn't play a SK on live but I was in groups getting PL'd by SKs tanking with one dc back in kunark.
I hope that is helpful for your tuning.