Highkeep / Highhold Keep Goblins

[Tupakk]

Originally Posted by Gumbo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are we still talking about if this is one camp or four camps?

All this time, I could have gone down into HK, killed the Goblins and moved on because they weren't giving me any experience anymore...

Yes, yes we are.

[Crashking]

Originally Posted by Gumbo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are we still talking about if this is one camp or four camps?

All this time, I could have gone down into HK, killed the Goblins and moved on because they weren't giving me any experience anymore...

No no we aren't arguing it at all, because a ruling was made. Someone didn't want to believe the information I was providing because "I can't see what was in your chat log" - SO NOW ITS IN PUBLIC VIEW. And as for server rules yes they are there, now lets see how many can actually read them, understand them and follow them.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=132299

So time to put the nails into this coffin - from the server rule page about a camp.

That being said, you can absolutely "camp" mobs, and you cannot steal another players 'camp'. In general, if the placeholder or placeholders for a spawn are being killed, that 'camp' can be considered held by the player doing the killing so long as they are keeping the placeholders cleared. You do not necessarily need to be at the spawn point to call it 'claimed' while it is uncontested, however, if someone else wishes to contest the 'camp' you do need to return to the 'camp' and maintain a presence at or very near the spawn(s) in order to hold it. It should also be noted that if you camp out or leave the zone (this includes dying/"corpsing" items), you have forfeited a camp. You cannot hold multiple 'camps' if another group wishes to contest one that you are holding. The player holding multiple 'camps' retains the right to choose which 'camp' to give up.

##########

So killing the goblins give that player ownership of the camp and it is up to them .. how and if they want to share it. The only argument that could be made here is if this is one or more camps, but as originally stated in the first post I was informed it was one camp... I am playing by that information until someone of higher authority states otherwise.

Onto other Play Nice Policy (PNP) sections:

6. Foul language is not permitted, in any language.

Excessive use of foul language in an inappropriate context, including swear words, real-world racial slurs, and other language that is not consistent with the fantasy environment and designed to hurt, will be considered a disruption. The existence of the filter (/filter) is not a license to be profane.

7. You may not harass others.

Harassment is defined as specifically targeting another player or group of players to harm or inconvenience them. As harassment can take many forms, the P99CSR involved will make a determination as to whether or not a "reasonable person" would feel harassed and act accordingly.

&&&&&&&&&&&

So for all those have i have encountered that have been rude and acted like jerks I will tell you this here in pubic as i have done in game --- respect gets respect as others have found out and grouping in the area along side me... getting xp and loot just fine. Those that come barging in and taking spawns just because they have failed to do some simple investigation or communication can just go eat mud!!!

I will defend my right to the camp each and every time I am there, I will not take any crap from player no matter who you are or what guild you belong to. I with just tell you to go away your presence is unwanted and your continued involvement in the area will be treated as harassment of me or those I am with -- IE see the above section on harassment. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And as to Cylock's comment about pick pocketing being legal.. sure fine i understand that express point.. but I am of the opinion if I am there to get the loot (IE EARS) then some player coming in and pick pocketing mobs while I am killing at the camp. Is disruptive and harassing behavior because it is taking away from my enjoyment and goal - that of getting the ears and loot myself which I am actively working towards by killing the mobs with the chance at death, where the pick pocket types i have seen are just trying to use a jank technique though a built in game mechanic to get what they want and then have someone else do the dirty work of getting the mobs to reset for a new set of loot for them, be this guards or a player that is actually killing the spawns and not affiliate with that person or been provided express permission to do this. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So with all that said, to the fellow players out there.. do some simple and courteous things like Camp Check.. because I will tell you if I am at a camp I damn well will call it out even if i step away to go sell or bank as such is capable there in Highkeep. I can understand that you might not want to tip off others of where you want to camp in case its not taken, but often it will save you time of travel though the zone when it surely is taken. If you really don't mind the travel or are persistent in only believing it by a visual check so be it.. come look.. stand at the camp .. and then call the check to see who responds. Often you will see that not all the mobs are up, you might not be able to see a player as they are down in the lower area while upper area is re-spawning, this doesn't not mean you get a free shot at any mob standing around. This is the #1 way to put a bad foot forward.. and get the EAT MUD reply. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you just learn to communicate as a whole, often you will find that the community can get along, but act like an A$$, get treated like one. It just that plain and simple. I've have many a discussion about my treatment at the camp with others that have been on the polite variety and they agree the treatment I have receive would prompt similar responses from them to those that have been rude.

Just get over the idea you are entitled to something just because some isn't standing right on top of the spawn point for the instant the NPC re-spawns. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have full logs that support my position in both regards.. my treatment / harassment, and those that have shared the camp and agree that the treatment should not be tolerated. I have offered these within all claims i have made, its just too bad the system won't let me seen in the unedited proof.

I will say one last thing about a PNP rule... 1. You may not steal kills.

Kill Stealing is defined as the killing of an NPC for any reason that is already fighting or pursuing another player or group that is prepared to engage that same NPC without that group's specific permission.

The intent of this rule is discourage and make note of habitual Kill Stealers, not to punish those who honestly try to work together or those who make an honest mistake. Its enforcement by the Project 1999 Customer Service Staff will reflect this philosophy.

Kill stealing of a mob / camp that doesn't belong to you should be punished. Taking away a mob from someone trying to invade that which you have rights to.. should not as I should have the right to defend my camp and the mobs in it.

From this point forward I consider this matter closed... If you want to debate amongst yourself, I don't care. This is my view, This is how i see the rules. If Rogean wants to provide me with any clarifications he can certainly PM me and we can talk.

So for the lil ones that are thinking about running around and pick pocketing mobs from another's camp... well Cylock... you just opened a whole new can of worms - because now it is out here in the public eye so I suspect to see more players doing it, thus causing more grief to all. It is my feeling this is a form of harassment that should not be tolerated while someone has a camp. If they want to play around pick pocketing on mobs that are in a camp not engage.. so be it.. as I am not there to be harassed by their action which are contrary to mine. Also if some is doing this pick pocket stuff grabbing agro on a fail and training mobs to the guards. that isn't camping by the rules as I see here.. and I will be stepping in to take the camp if that is the area I desire because as I recall reading training to guards is contrary to actually owning a camp. I have the decency though to see if it is a habitual thing .. or just an off chance of bad luck.

I am quite surprised this topic has pushed out into 8 pages.. but then some posts have seemed to be off-topic - either way I'm concluding my portion of this thread. & as Jerry would say ... THAT'S MY FINAL THOUGHT - so be kind to one another because we are all here for a good time though it might not be for a long time.[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Crashking [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No no we aren't arguing it at all, because a ruling was made. Someone didn't want to believe the information I was providing because "I can't see what was in your chat log" - SO NOW ITS IN PUBLIC VIEW. And as for server rules yes they are there, now lets see how many can actually read them, understand them and follow them.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=132299

So time to put the nails into this coffin - from the server rule page about a camp.

That being said, you can absolutely "camp" mobs, and you cannot steal another players 'camp'. In general, if the placeholder or placeholders for a spawn are being killed, that 'camp' can be considered held by the player doing the killing so long as they are keeping the placeholders cleared. You do not necessarily need to be at the spawn point to call it 'claimed' while it is uncontested, however, if someone else wishes to contest the 'camp' you do need to return to the 'camp' and maintain a presence at or very near the spawn(s) in order to hold it. It should also be noted that if you camp out or leave the zone (this includes dying/"corpsing" items), you have forfeited a camp. You cannot hold multiple 'camps' if another group wishes to contest one that you are holding. The player holding multiple 'camps' retains the right to choose which 'camp' to give up.

##########

So killing the goblins give that player ownership of the camp and it is up to them .. how and if they want to share it. The only argument that could be made here is if this is one or more camps, but as originally stated in the first post I was informed it was one camp... I am playing by that information until someone of higher authority states otherwise.

Onto other Play Nice Policy (PNP) sections:

6. Foul language is not permitted, in any language.

Excessive use of foul language in an inappropriate context, including swear words, real-world racial slurs, and other language that is not consistent with the fantasy environment and designed to hurt, will be considered a disruption. The existence of the filter (/filter) is not a license to be profane.

7. You may not harass others.

Harassment is defined as specifically targeting another player or group of players to harm or inconvenience them. As harassment can take many forms, the P99CSR involved will make a determination as to whether or not a "reasonable person" would feel harassed and act accordingly.

&&&&&&&&&&&

So for all those have i have encountered that have been rude and acted like jerks I will tell you this here in pubic as i have done in game --- respect gets respect as others have found out and grouping in the area along side me... getting xp and loot just fine. Those that come barging in and taking spawns just because they have failed to do some simple investigation or communication can just go eat mud!!!

I will defend my right to the camp each and every time I am there, I will not take any crap from player no matter who you are or what guild you belong to. I with just tell you to go away your presence is unwanted and your continued involvement in the area will be treated as harassment of me or those I am with -- IE see the above section on harassment. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And as to Cylock's comment about pick pocketing being legal.. sure fine i understand that express point.. but I am of the opinion if I am there to get the loot (IE EARS) then some player coming in and pick pocketing mobs while I am killing at the camp. Is disruptive and harassing behavior because it is taking away from my enjoyment and goal - that of getting the ears and loot myself which I am actively working towards by killing the mobs with the chance at death, where the pick pocket types i have seen are just trying to use a jank technique though a built in game mechanic to get what they want and then have someone else do the dirty work of getting the mobs to reset for a new set of loot for them, be this guards or a player that is actually killing the spawns and not affiliate with that person or been provided express permission to do this. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So with all that said, to the fellow players out there.. do some simple and courteous things like Camp Check.. because I will tell you if I am at a camp I damn well will call it out even if i step away to go sell or bank as such is capable there in Highkeep. I can understand that you might not want to tip off others of where you want to camp in case its not taken, but often it will save you time of travel though the zone when it surely is taken. If you really don't mind the travel or are persistent in only believing it by a visual check so be it.. come look.. stand at the camp .. and then call the check to see who responds. Often you will see that not all the mobs are up, you might not be able to see a player as they are down in the lower area while upper area is re-spawning, this doesn't not mean you get a free shot at any mob standing around. This is the #1 way to put a bad foot forward.. and get the EAT MUD reply. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you just learn to communicate as a whole, often you will find that the community can get along, but act like an A$$, get treated like one. It just that plain and simple. I've have many a discussion about my treatment at the camp with others that have been on the polite variety and they agree the treatment I have receive would prompt similar responses from them to those that have been rude.

Just get over the idea you are entitled to something just because some isn't standing right on top of the spawn point for the instant the NPC re-spawns. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have full logs that support my position in both regards.. my treatment / harassment, and those that have shared the camp and agree that the treatment should not be tolerated. I have offered these within all claims i have made, its just too bad the system won't let me seen in the unedited proof.

I will say one last thing about a PNP rule... 1. You may not steal kills.

Kill Stealing is defined as the killing of an NPC for any reason that is already fighting or pursuing another player or group that is prepared to engage that same NPC without that group's specific permission.

The intent of this rule is discourage and make note of habitual Kill Stealers, not to punish those who honestly try to work together or those who make an honest mistake. Its enforcement by the Project 1999 Customer Service Staff will reflect this philosophy.

Kill stealing of a mob / camp that doesn't belong to you should be punished. Taking away a mob from someone trying to invade that which you have rights to.. should not as I should have the right to defend my camp and the mobs in it.

From this point forward I consider this matter closed... If you want to debate amongst yourself, I don't care. This is my view, This is how i see the rules. If Rogean wants to provide me with any clarifications he can certainly PM me and we can talk.

So for the lil ones that are thinking about running around and pick pocketing mobs from another's camp... well Cylock... you just opened a whole new can of worms - because now it is out here in the public eye so I suspect to see more players doing it, thus causing more grief to all. It is my feeling this is a form of harassment that should not be tolerated while someone has a camp. If they want to play around pick pocketing on mobs that are in a camp not engage.. so be it.. as I am not there to be harassed by their action which are contrary to mine. Also if some is doing this pick pocket stuff grabbing agro on a fail and training mobs to the guards. that isn't camping by the rules as I see here.. and I will be stepping in to take the camp if that is the area I desire because as I recall reading training to guards is contrary to actually owning a camp. I have the decency though to see if it is a habitual thing .. or just an off chance of bad luck.

I am quite surprised this topic has pushed out into 8 pages.. but then some posts have seemed to be off-topic - either way I'm concluding my portion of this thread. & as Jerry would say ... THAT'S MY FINAL THOUGHT - so be kind to one another because we are all here for a good time though it might not be for a long time.[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]


OP you need to learn what "economy of expression" is <3

[shuklak]

Crash going zerk. Don't let him zerk!

[Tupakk]

Originally Posted by Crashking [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No no we aren't arguing it at all, because a ruling was made. Someone didn't want to believe the information I was providing because "I can't see what was in your chat log" - SO NOW ITS IN PUBLIC VIEW. And as for server rules yes they are there, now lets see how many can actually read them, understand them and follow them.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=132299

So time to put the nails into this coffin - from the server rule page about a camp.

That being said, you can absolutely "camp" mobs, and you cannot steal another players 'camp'. In general, if the placeholder or placeholders for a spawn are being killed, that 'camp' can be considered held by the player doing the killing so long as they are keeping the placeholders cleared. You do not necessarily need to be at the spawn point to call it 'claimed' while it is uncontested, however, if someone else wishes to contest the 'camp' you do need to return to the 'camp' and maintain a presence at or very near the spawn(s) in order to hold it. It should also be noted that if you camp out or leave the zone (this includes dying/"corpsing" items), you have forfeited a camp. You cannot hold multiple 'camps' if another group wishes to contest one that you are holding. The player holding multiple 'camps' retains the right to choose which 'camp' to give up.

##########

So killing the goblins give that player ownership of the camp and it is up to them .. how and if they want to share it. The only argument that could be made here is if this is one or more camps, but as originally stated in the first post I was informed it was one camp... I am playing by that information until someone of higher authority states otherwise.

Onto other Play Nice Policy (PNP) sections:

6. Foul language is not permitted, in any language.

Excessive use of foul language in an inappropriate context, including swear words, real-world racial slurs, and other language that is not consistent with the fantasy environment and designed to hurt, will be considered a disruption. The existence of the filter (/filter) is not a license to be profane.

7. You may not harass others.

Harassment is defined as specifically targeting another player or group of players to harm or inconvenience them. As harassment can take many forms, the P99CSR involved will make a determination as to whether or not a "reasonable person" would feel harassed and act accordingly.

&&&&&&&&&&&

So for all those have i have encountered that have been rude and acted like jerks I will tell you this here in pubic as i have done in game --- respect gets respect as others have found out and grouping in the area along side me... getting xp and loot just fine. Those that come barging in and taking spawns just because they have failed to do some simple investigation or communication can just go eat mud!!!

I will defend my right to the camp each and every time I am there, I will not take any crap from player no matter who you are or what guild you belong to. I with just tell you to go away your presence is unwanted and your continued involvement in the area will be treated as harassment of me or those I am with -- IE see the above section on harassment. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And as to Cylock's comment about pick pocketing being legal.. sure fine i understand that express point.. but I am of the opinion if I am there to get the loot (IE EARS) then some player coming in and pick pocketing mobs while I am killing at the camp. Is disruptive and harassing behavior because it is taking away from my enjoyment and goal - that of getting the ears and loot myself which I am actively working towards by killing the mobs with the chance at death, where the pick pocket types i have seen are just trying to use a jank technique though a built in game mechanic to get what they want and then have someone else do the dirty work of getting the mobs to reset for a new set of loot for them, be this guards or a player that is actually killing the spawns and not affiliate with that person or been provided express permission to do this. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So with all that said, to the fellow players out there.. do some simple and courteous things like Camp Check.. because I will tell you if I am at a camp I damn well will call it out even if i step away to go sell or bank as such is capable there in Highkeep. I can understand that you might not want to tip off others of where you want to camp in case its not taken, but often it will save you time of travel though the zone when it surely is taken. If you really don't mind the travel or are persistent in only believing it by a visual check so be it.. come look.. stand at the camp .. and then call the check to see who responds. Often you will see that not all the mobs are up, you might not be able to see a player as they are down in the lower area while upper area is re-spawning, this doesn't not mean you get a free shot at any mob standing around. This is the #1 way to put a bad foot forward.. and get the EAT MUD reply. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you just learn to communicate as a whole, often you will find that the community can get along, but act like an A$$, get treated like one. It just that plain and simple. I've have many a discussion about my treatment at the camp with others that have been on the polite variety and they agree the treatment I have receive would prompt similar responses from them to those that have been rude.

Just get over the idea you are entitled to something just because some isn't standing right on top of the spawn point for the instant the NPC re-spawns. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have full logs that support my position in both regards.. my treatment / harassment, and those that have shared the camp and agree that the treatment should not be tolerated. I have offered these within all claims i have made, its just too bad the system won't let me seen in the unedited proof.

I will say one last thing about a PNP rule... 1. You may not steal kills.

Kill Stealing is defined as the killing of an NPC for any reason that is already fighting or pursuing another player or group that is prepared to engage that same NPC without that group's specific permission.

The intent of this rule is discourage and make note of habitual Kill Stealers, not to punish those who honestly try to work together or those who make an honest mistake. Its enforcement by the Project 1999 Customer Service Staff will reflect this philosophy.

Kill stealing of a mob / camp that doesn't belong to you should be punished. Taking away a mob from someone trying to invade that which you have rights to.. should not as I should have the right to defend my camp and the mobs in it.

From this point forward I consider this matter closed... If you want to debate amongst yourself, I don't care. This is my view, This is how i see the rules. If Rogean wants to provide me with any clarifications he can certainly PM me and we can talk.

So for the lil ones that are thinking about running around and pick pocketing mobs from another's camp... well Cylock... you just opened a whole new can of worms - because now it is out here in the public eye so I suspect to see more players doing it, thus causing more grief to all. It is my feeling this is a form of harassment that should not be tolerated while someone has a camp. If they want to play around pick pocketing on mobs that are in a camp not engage.. so be it.. as I am not there to be harassed by their action which are contrary to mine. Also if some is doing this pick pocket stuff grabbing agro on a fail and training mobs to the guards. that isn't camping by the rules as I see here.. and I will be stepping in to take the camp if that is the area I desire because as I recall reading training to guards is contrary to actually owning a camp. I have the decency though to see if it is a habitual thing .. or just an off chance of bad luck.

I am quite surprised this topic has pushed out into 8 pages.. but then some posts have seemed to be off-topic - either way I'm concluding my portion of this thread. & as Jerry would say ... THAT'S MY FINAL THOUGHT - so be kind to one another because we are all here for a good time though it might not be for a long time.[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

TLDR??

Make this kid a guide we need another GG scandal. Will pay for his training myself.

[Tupakk]

Originally Posted by Perissh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When you change commas and periods, it means a completely different thing. Yes, changing it the way you did does make it read completely different.

Boom 4 to 3 in favor of us.

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]


OP you need to learn what "economy of expression" is <3

QFT ^^

[aaezil]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Congrats on translating the very opposite of what Cylock meant, Sorn. Lol.
He's saying all the goblins were one camp in classic, but it's not the case on P99.

cylock was wrong then (if thats what he truly meant to say - nobody knows, right?)

[NegaStoat]

Classic example of a line where punctuation changes everything

-- what do you think I'll shave you for nothing and give you a drink --

"What do you think? I'll shave you for nothing and give you a drink!"
"What! Do you think I'll shave you for nothing and give you a drink?"

Let's take a look at what the GM said.

-- 'no, that entire area is one camp, back in TRUE classic. Yea it was one room ... but not on p99' --

"Yea it was one room ... but not on p99"

That's the key to the whole thing. The first part affirms that the implied camp or situation in this case WAS one room, or one camp on SOME classic old retail servers. The second part affirms that the previous described state is a negative on p99, or a state that is not present.

OR

The first part affirms that the specific set of goblin spawns in question was considered one room, or one camp, all on its own. And the second part affirms that a negative of that state is present on P1999, and thus ALL of the goblin spawns are one camp.

My gut tells me that going off of standard English language literature and communication, the first one is what the GM was asserting. This hinges on the speaker's first part (''no, that entire area is one camp, back in TRUE classic.") being used to describe a state on previous retail servers, with emphasis given to 'TRUE classic' (note caps). This strongly implies an X / Y comparison, with p1999 being Y, thus implied different, to X (old retail). Thus asserting Y (p1999) has a difference found with the goblin spawns being their own set of different camps.

The OP's confusion is understandable. A moderate amount of clarity is lacking with what the GM said.

[trite]

Originally Posted by Crashking [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This post is to make everyone aware of what GM Cylock had to say about the camp as I have had way too much trouble here in what i call paradise. This is an exact excerpt from my logfile when speaking to GM Cylock over issue I had with a level 60 mage who decided to walk in and obliterate the area and not even loot from the mobs.

[Wed Jul 26 15:49:45 2017] You told Cylock, 'a player pulled up some info saying rogean deam each room here a camp but i couldnt find this on the forums when i seached.. it that truely the case?'

[Wed Jul 26 15:50:19 2017] Cylock tells you, 'no, that entire area is one camp, back in TRUE classic. Yea it was one room ... but not on p99'
[Wed Jul 26 15:50:34 2017] You told Cylock '[queued], okay good to know thanks'

So the next time someone comes to gank on mobs when the camp is already owned, I will be pointing them to this. You have now been informed, so let their be peace over this little slice of paradise.

During kunark era on the live server povar, every room was held by a different group, guard room, lookout room, warrior room and raider room....there was a list to get into each group....

If he is saying the whole goblin area was one camp in classic, that isn't true...no idea what he was actually trying to say...