A Beginner's Guide to the P1999 Raid Scene?

[Zekayy]

I am in Aftermath and dont even raid its fun you all should try it sometime

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by Ikon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't personally attack people. Stop trying to be a victim.

Fact is your opinion or your 17 year old memory of EQ means sweet fark all.

Fact is the evidence I linked showed that the classic system that Verant implemented worked - as Gordon said, not perfectly, but it worked. That was verified by the comments in the threads I linked of people complaining about having to "share" and how awful it was.

"aweful" being completely subjective, as the comments mentioned the reason they didn't petition often because of the classic PnP policy is because there were lists and rotations.

There were lists and rotations because of the classic PnP policy.

That's not my 17 year old memory that's from the fingers of people from 2001 who experienced it and wrote about it in 2001. Would you like me to link it again?

Edit: Before you start arguing about me personally attacking you - A personal attack is if I said Ikon you're a farkhead. A personal attack is not if I said Ikon you're acting like a farkhead. The first is attacking the person, the second is a criticism of the persons behavior. IMO you are acting like a schoolkid. You are demanding that your personal opinion, based on your individual experience on your particular server(s) be considered evidence of what happened on every server 17 years ago. You believe that that should override contemporaneous posts of the time by Everquest developers and people who played on various servers. That is a pretty stupid expectation.

Ikon,

If you don't know how calling my opinion "bullshit" or accusing me of "intentionally misleading" people is a personal attack then I don't know what to say to you.

As you've proved in multiple threads, you are just not worth engaging. Everyone who disagrees with "your facts" is relying solely on "their opinion". It isn't a discussion because you are already 100% right. You go out of your way to be unnecessarily rude and dismissive of others.

I honestly can't tell whether you are just like this or you're an intentional troll. The last time I engaged with you I received several PMs from folks just telling me not to even try to engage you. I have to say they were right, and it won't happen again.

It is ironic that you posted in another thread how you don't allow your 13 year old child to play p99 because you find the forums too toxic.

[Ikon]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ikon,

If you don't know how calling my opinion "bullshit" or accusing me of "intentionally misleading" people is a personal attack then I don't know what to say to you.

As you've proved in multiple threads, you are just not worth engaging. Everyone who disagrees with "your facts" is relying solely on "their opinion". It isn't a discussion because you are already 100% right. You go out of your way to be unnecessarily rude and dismissive of others.

I honestly can't tell whether you are just like this or you're an intentional troll. The last time I engaged with you I received several PMs from folks just telling me not to even try to engage you. I have to say they were right, and it won't happen again.

It is ironic that you posted in another thread how you don't allow your 13 year old child to play p99 because you find the forums too toxic.

You're deliberately attempting to obfuscate the fact that you are relying purely on your own opinion.

Calling your opinion bullshit is not a personal attack against you since your opinion is not you, your opinion is something you hold, its a belief without evidence. Accusing you of intentionally misleading people is not a personal attack because its a criticism of something I believe you are doing, rather than you personally - hence the word "personal" in "personal attack".

This is pretty basic stuff [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Xzavie]

P99 raid scene is like an unregulated market. The richest get richer and richer while the poor struggle for scraps.

Instanced raiding is the socialism that evens the playing field a bit.

Anyone that likes "raiding' here, great, keep doing your thing. Everyone bitching should try a new game. I like EQ phinigel, but there are others.

Many of you would really like Phinny if you gave it a shot.

There is a reason all of the new games have instanced raiding.

Happy New Year!

[Ikon]

Originally Posted by Xzavie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

P99 raid scene is like an unregulated market. The richest get richer and richer while the poor struggle for scraps.

Instanced raiding is the socialism that evens the playing field a bit.

Anyone that likes "raiding' here, great, keep doing your thing. Everyone bitching should try a new game. I like EQ phinigel, but there are others.

Many of you would really like Phinny if you gave it a shot.

There is a reason all of the new games have instanced raiding.

Happy New Year!

Yeah but it doesn't take a genius to figure out most of the people on this server like this server because we liked classic. The raiding here is not classic.

It would be more appropriate for the people that like non-classic raiding to feck off and go elsewhere rather than the people who are here for a classic experience to feck off.

https://eatingbees.wordpress.com/the...g-a-guide-you/

Play nice policies. My personal feelings aside (lay off the wacky weed, Verant), I get to enforce it. Do you know how much I hate you at the end of a long shift? What kind of asshole thinks the king room in Lower Guk can be shared by TWO GROUPS OF 12? Conversely, what kind of screaming cocksucker thinks it’s okay to camp the king room for 36 hours? I think you both suck. The only people lamer than you are the ones that PNP over derv camps in North Ro and then act surprised when I send one group to the DESERTED derv camp a 30 second walk away.

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by Ikon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're deliberately attempting to obfuscate the fact that you are relying purely on your own opinion.

Calling your opinion bullshit is not a personal attack against you since your opinion is not you, your opinion is something you hold, its a belief without evidence. Accusing you of intentionally misleading people is not a personal attack because its a criticism of something I believe you are doing, rather than you personally - hence the word "personal" in "personal attack".

This is pretty basic stuff [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Like I said, if you honestly don't see that calling my post bullshit and my purpose for posting it intentionally misleading is personally offensive, rude, and not a productive part of having a dialogue then I don't know how to make it any clearer for you than it is.

Being rude and using rude language is pretty basic stuff, I agree with you on that.

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by Ikon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're deliberately attempting to obfuscate the fact that you are relying purely on your own opinion.

Ikon,

Opinion and personal anecdotal evidence aren't the same thing. Dismissing all anecdotal evidence as useless personal opinion would be a big error.

Saying that I remember playing on live and having a memory how things were isn't GREAT evidence from a scientific point of view, but anecdotal evidence is, in fact, evidence.

Relying on memory for certain details of the game (like say, the two years of my life during luclin and PoP where I remember batphoning and poopsocking to get targets) isn't an opinon. It is anecdotal evidence.

Considering that most people who played on live that I've talked to have that shared anecdotal experience it isn't just mere opinion or one person's anecdotal recollection on the state of the game in PoP before PoTime instancing.

I've never spoken to a single player who doesn't recall the cock-blocking and negative fighting between guilds in PoP. Blocking each other at Rallos Zek was the big one. Lots of guilds were stuck in PoP at Sol Ro tower because they couldn't get into the elemental planes. The content was monopolized for years....just like it was here. It all totally changed when instancing came in.

There isn't anything in the threads you posted or in my anecdotal recollection of events that is contradictory. Devs and GMs did make efforts to improve the game by tinkering with the PNP on multiple occasions and designing new content that opened up the end game, but the bitterness and hostile behavior between end-game raiding guilds continued well into Luclin/PoP and only really ended (i.e. the problem was solved) with the implementation of instancing in PoTime and further expansions.

I don't see why you have such a hard time with that. It isn't just mere opinion. Lots of us were actually there.

[fadetree]

Fastboy, cmon. He found ACTUAL POSTS ON THE INTERNET, and thus cannot be contradicted. If he were to allow that some people might have different memories and that maybe things are not totally black and white, then we'd be all confused. Personally, I had no idea that my memories of the 9 years I spent playing on live were so faulty, and I am just glad he has shown me the truth. And obviously, trying to make fine points about the difference between 'implemented at all' and 'implemented with success' are just silliness. HE FOUND ACTUAL POSTS.

And I think the fact that you don't get that he is not actually saying that 'you ARE an idiot', as opposed to 'you ACT like an idiot' is not a personal attack means you don't understand how language works. For instance, if I were to say that 'Ikon *is* an overbearing pseudo-intellectual that thinks his leet research skills prove things beyond a shadow of a doubt and that no-one else even has a legitimate reason to doubt him', rather than 'Ikon *ACTS* like an overbearing pseudo-intellectual that thinks his leet research skills prove things beyond a shadow of a doubt and that no-one else even has a legitimate reason to doubt him', that one little change would mean I was personally attacking him.

I am now trying to find posts on the internet that claim that the world is flat and lizard people live in the center. Oh look! Here's some -
http://theflatearthsociety.org/home/
Wow they have a whole wiki and tons of research! WHO KNEW. I better get in touch with the physics community and let them know they are all wrong.

[nyclin]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There isn't anything in the threads you posted or in my anecdotal recollection of events that is contradictory. Devs and GMs did make efforts to improve the game by tinkering with the PNP on multiple occasions and designing new content that opened up the end game, but the bitterness and hostile behavior between end-game raiding guilds continued well into Luclin/PoP and only really ended (i.e. the problem was solved) with the implementation of instancing in PoTime and further expansions.

I don't see why you have such a hard time with that. It isn't just mere opinion. Lots of us were actually there.

get the fuck out of here with your reasoned, logical opinions

i found a post on allakhazam from 2001 that says i'm right and you're wrong so go play on phinny

[Ikon]

Originally Posted by fadetree [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Fastboy, cmon. He found ACTUAL POSTS ON THE INTERNET, and thus cannot be contradicted. If he were to allow that some people might have different memories and that maybe things are not totally black and white, then we'd be all confused. Personally, I had no idea that my memories of the 9 years I spent playing on live were so faulty, and I am just glad he has shown me the truth. And obviously, trying to make fine points about the difference between 'implemented at all' and 'implemented with success' are just silliness. HE FOUND ACTUAL POSTS.

And I think the fact that you don't get that he is not actually saying that 'you ARE an idiot', as opposed to 'you ACT like an idiot' is not a personal attack means you don't understand how language works. For instance, if I were to say that 'Ikon *is* an overbearing pseudo-intellectual that thinks his leet research skills prove things beyond a shadow of a doubt and that no-one else even has a legitimate reason to doubt him', rather than 'Ikon *ACTS* like an overbearing pseudo-intellectual that thinks his leet research skills prove things beyond a shadow of a doubt and that no-one else even has a legitimate reason to doubt him', that one little change would mean I was personally attacking him.

I am now trying to find posts on the internet that claim that the world is flat and lizard people live in the center. Oh look! Here's some -
http://theflatearthsociety.org/home/
Wow they have a whole wiki and tons of research! WHO KNEW. I better get in touch with the physics community and let them know they are all wrong.

Fadetree:

I can assure you that this will never happen here. It is, sadly, not classic. This server is not about what EQ should have been, it's about what it was.

Why are you here? That 'shitty' coding is the entire point of this. It's about recreating what EQ was, not about how fun you, or any of us, think it is.

Facts are:

Two of the posts I linked were from Gordon Wrinn - Verants official community liason for Everquest and later associate producer of Everquest. Those links were official correspondence between Gordon and the EQ community regarding the PnP.

Another post I linked was from Tweety, a guide that snapped who mentions several times the frustrations with having to enforce the PnP.

The other links are posts from approximately 60+ players on various servers discussing the PnP policy and how it worked, how it sucked, how it wasn't fair - none were saying it wasn't implemented, they were saying the opposite, it was implemented and a number said it worked and the game was better for it.

Now lets compare,

Fadetree and Fastboy vs Gordon Wrinn, A infamous guide from EQ and approximately 64 players from 2000-2001...

Which is more convincing......

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