Building a Mosque??? WTF

[Taxi]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We can agree to disagree. I simply think radical Islam is a FAR bigger player in the modern world than radical christianity. It isn't about any one group of terrorists, christian or muslim.

I don't think the "average" middle eastern muslim wants to cut off my head...I never said that. I do believe that the average middle eastern muslim is not violent at all. But the forces of radicalism are much closer to the forefront of middle eastern countries than in Christian countries. That is all I am saying: the split is not 50-50. In today's world radical islam is a far bigger problem than radical christianity. this statement isn't based in racism or hatred, its a fair analysis of the current hot-bed of the world geopolitical problems today.

If we want to address why so much radicalism is gripping the middle east we have to be honest that it exists and is not just the media spinning the facts.

Tell that to the iraqis and afghanis and pakistanese getting bombed by christian planes. There is not one american president i can remember who is not constantly referring to god and jesus.

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by Taxi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Timothy McVeigh, christian, bombs oklahoma city. No more churches around the place, because you know, he was christian?

Yes, you make a point. I just don't know what profound point you think you are making...McVeigh didn't bomb oklahoma city because of a religious belief. So why would anyone care if a Church got put up near by?

Yes, McVeigh was a Christian. Yes, Christians can do bad things too.

Good point. /sarcasm off

***
What I really wonder about people's opinions when it comes to this "debate" is where would you draw the line on freedom of expression? when does someone's right to grieve in peace outweigh another's right to express themselves?

Let's say, for example...
The WTC had been bombed by the members of the NY State KKK as part of a KKK mission to destroy American lives who disagree with their ideals.

Would you be in favor of that KKK chapter opening a meeting hall at ground zero? what about 2 blocks away? what about 3 blocks away? what if they put up a banner in their window (that isn't breaking any civil codes) that says "we're glad your friends are dead?"---is that too far?

Its easy to defend freedom of expression and speech when YOUR comfort zone isn't the one that is being infringed on...its much harder when you are the one who is in pain.

Freedom of expression and speech is not absolute. There are plenty of reasons when the government has every constitutional authority to violate your free speech.

Where do you draw the line is a far more important question to ask yourself when you are championing another's free speech/expression.

***
I can understand someone saying they should be allowed to build because they did nothing wrong. They aren't the people who committed the crime so why should they be held responsible/punished. I respect this rationale because it is good sense. This is why I believe they by LAW have every right to build there.

When people say things like it isn't actually right at ground zero...or it isn't REALLY a mosque...I have to wonder why those facts really matter to you. Are you saying that if it WERE a mosque and it WERE at ground zero you wouldn't support their freedoms? That doesn't sound like defending freedoms and rights anymore, it sounds like you just articulating what your particular comfort zone is. If you are one of those people where do you draw the line then between what you believe is right and wrong in this situation? Well...they can be no closer than 2 blocks to the site so long as they only hold prayer services and don't put any Islamic calligraphy on their signs...This is clearly ridiculous.

[Taxi]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes, you make a point. I just don't know what profound point you think you are making...McVeigh didn't bomb oklahoma city because of a religious belief. So why would anyone care if a Church got put up near by?

Yes, McVeigh was a Christian. Yes, Christians can do bad things too.

Good point. /sarcasm off

***
What I really wonder about people's opinions when it comes to this "debate" is where would you draw the line on freedom of expression? when does someone's right to grieve in peace outweigh another's right to express themselves?

Let's say, for example...
The WTC had been bombed by the members of the NY State KKK as part of a KKK mission to destroy American lives who disagree with their ideals.

Would you be in favor of that KKK chapter opening a meeting hall at ground zero? what about 2 blocks away? what about 3 blocks away? what if they put up a banner in their window (that isn't breaking any civil codes) that says "we're glad your friends are dead?"---is that too far?

Its easy to defend freedom of expression and speech when YOUR comfort zone isn't the one that is being infringed on...its much harder when you are the one who is in pain.

Freedom of expression and speech is not absolute. There are plenty of reasons when the government has every constitutional authority to violate your free speech.

Where do you draw the line is a far more important question to ask yourself when you are championing another's free speech/expression.

***
I can understand someone saying they should be allowed to build because they did nothing wrong. They aren't the people who committed the crime so why should they be held responsible/punished. I respect this rationale because it is good sense. This is why I believe they by LAW have every right to build there.

When people say things like it isn't actually right at ground zero...or it isn't REALLY a mosque...I have to wonder why those facts really matter to you. Are you saying that if it WERE a mosque and it WERE at ground zero you wouldn't support their freedoms? That doesn't sound like defending freedoms and rights anymore, it sounds like you just articulating what your particular comfort zone is. If you are one of those people where do you draw the line then between what you believe is right and wrong in this situation? Well...they can be no closer than 2 blocks to the site so long as they only hold prayer services and don't put any Islamic calligraphy on their signs...This is clearly ridiculous.

America is just so racist that they dont even pick up whats racist or not anymore it seems, its just so ingrained in the culture and matter of fact. Those people who bomb abortion clinics in the state, they are christian, right? They doing it out of religious faith, right? So why not ban christian churches from 2 blocks from any abortion clinic in the US? To ask the question is to answer it, theyre not banning it because nobody is painting all christians as if they are all potential abortion clinic bombers, which is how muslims are painted in this day and age. Theyre the new jews.

[Taxi]

Theres loads of examples like this, where to an outsider, the racism is instantly obvious, but somehow, some americans are so brain-washed or just performing Orwell's double-think (the ability to hold 2 contradicting ideas in your head and beleiving them both to be true, like "Im not a racist" and "I hate black people") that they dont see it anymore.

2 examples:

Cops in flint michigan, wanted or did pass a law, where you get fined if your pants are sagging below the waistline. A clothing trend that is often chosen by some part of the black youth today. So ok, boxer shorts are like tennis shorts right? So white preppies wearing tennis shorts ok, black kids where we can see part of the tennis shorts, not ok.
This, for an outsider, is an obvious attempt to harass young black kids. Like something you can use to harass them, a racist tool.

Jena, Lousiana. Some black kids decide to sit under a tree that was traditionally a place where only white kids sat. A couple of time after, some nooses are put up in the tree, fights break out, kids are suspended. A journalist asks a librarian at the school if she thinks nooses in a tree are a racist symbol. You know, when they used to do that to black people for no reason beside them being black? She says that she cant find whats racist in it.

Mississippi school, 2010:

Until Friday, it was standard practice in Nettleton, Mississippi's Middle School--though illegal--to segregate student body elections. This practice was enforced by documents that articulated the race requirements for specific offices (e.g., president, vice president, etc.) and went so far as to set aside 12 leadership positions for white students and four positions for African-American students. For years, the policy went unchallenged, virtually unnoticed by the district, which proudly displays on its homepage the motto, "teaching today what matters tomorrow." Given what has now been exposed to the nation, this begs the question, what, exactly, were they trying to teach?

There are many glaring examples like this where america's racism is just jumping at you.

[Taxi]

Like, they cant make the connection with the anti-mosque hysteria and the guy who stabbed a random taxi driver after being told he was muslim.

[fastboy21]

taxi...mcveigh had nothing to do with him being a christian. you used the example, and it is a bad one.

the abortion clinic example and the stabbing a taxi driver because he was muslim are obviously much better examples...maybe next time you'll use them first before using the crap one.

and, btw, it isn't RACIST to hate Muslims unless you hate them because they are semetic. you keep using the word racist, when it makes no sense for your own examples. its wrong and bigoted, prejudiced, etc...but it isn't rascist. the word just doesn't refer to religion.

i'm such a racist towards mets fans!

[oldhead]

Im of the same mind Obama is. They have every right to do it... but it may not be wise to do so.

Just because you CAN do something doesnt mean you should do it.

You CAN burn a an American flag... doesnt mean you should. You may become the focus of many peoples bad intent.

You CAN act like these fuckers...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church
Doesnt mean you should.

[oldhead]

I feel the media is a bag of nuts about it tho... only good thing is that it makes watch john stewart so much better.

[ShadowWulf]

One of the funders of the mosque is a member of the Saudi royal family, and brother to Osama.

Oh yea, and he is also the largest private share holder of FOX news. Guess it pays to MAKE the news eh?

[Taxi]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

taxi...mcveigh had nothing to do with him being a christian. you used the example, and it is a bad one.

the abortion clinic example and the stabbing a taxi driver because he was muslim are obviously much better examples...maybe next time you'll use them first before using the crap one.

and, btw, it isn't RACIST to hate Muslims unless you hate them because they are semetic. you keep using the word racist, when it makes no sense for your own examples. its wrong and bigoted, prejudiced, etc...but it isn't rascist. the word just doesn't refer to religion.

i'm such a racist towards mets fans!

Why is it a bad one? He was a christian fanatic, ready to blow up lots of people for what he thought was his battle of good vs evil. Sound familiar?

When i say racist, its because the hate is directed toward an ethnic group. Yes, islam is a religion, but alot of its practionners are in the minds of those type of americans, the middle eastern, pakistani, huh, you know, those brown turban bearded guys. (right, the sikhs.) The hate doesnt restrict itself to a religion, it has a more broad range, which is why im using the word racism, and not bigotry.