Building a Mosque??? WTF

[ShadowWulf]

One of the funders of the mosque is a member of the Saudi royal family, and brother to Osama.

Oh yea, and he is also the largest private share holder of FOX news. Guess it pays to MAKE the news eh?

[isitatomic]

[Warning: Post only for individuals on higher planes of thinking. Users unable to imbibe information contained in chunks longer than a text message or Facebook status update are advised to skip over for purposes of TL;DR, and to continue with the filling of their dirty gym sock]

Give me a fucking break. The "logic" behind the opposition to this construction project is as amorphous as the explanations its adherents use to defend it, trying their best to conceal their profound ignorance and/or bigotry all the while. If there is A SINGLE cogent argument against the completion of this center, it's been awfully afraid to show itself. Furthermore, the wording and rhetoric being thrown around in discussions of this "news" is so obviously crafted for demagoguery that anyone with half a brain completely tuned out coverage and checked facts for themselves.


Let's see:

Mosque. Powerful image in the US citizens' psyche. Minarets piercing the sky, the singing of daily prayers, bearded Imams shuffling about. Questionable though polling may be, recent Pew research indicates a general disdain for Muslims in the US, with 4 in 10 having an unfavorable view toward followers of Islam. I'll assume everyone has a very good idea in their heads as to which partisans those people are likely to be. A perfectly charged word to be bouncing around in the mediasphere, for some. Too bad it's bogus. A prayer room or chapel in a hospital... makes the hospital a church? No, not really. A prayer room in an Islamic Community Center is, that's right, also not a MOSQUE. But the energizing of a certain base for a certain spate of upcoming elections, and the hopes that a certain political seachange in a certain legislative institution will take place make that word strategically stupid to ignore. I've worked briefly in a Jewish Community Center and first of all, it's just simply not called a synagogue and doing so is flagrantly misleading, and second, frankly, persistently referring to the physical building as a synagogue would make you sound like what you probably are, an ignorant tool. A completely relevant statement on the website of such a center states:

The Jewish Community Center of Greater Buffalo is just that…a COMMUNITY Center. Membership is open to all members of our community without regard to race, age, gender, religious preference, marital or economic status.(Note: Emphasis theirs)

Ground Zero. Even more of an explosive image (pun totally intended)! It's so emotionally charged that there were way more of you who just got pissed off reading that than who thought it was funny. Point made. Though again, totally bogus with regard to the proposed construction project. Most major media outlets took the bait, or simply hooked it themselves, when this "story" first climbed its way out of the sewers of the conservative-conspiracy nut blogosphere. 'Ground Zero Mosque' was everywhere. It was everywhere because it glued eyes to TV sets and fingers to pages, not because it was at all true. And it's not.

There is no fucking ground zero mosque, nor is there a ground zero islamic community center.


This brings us to the two loudest forms of vomit spewing from the mouths of the project's opponents...

1) Proximity: Stop the ground zero mosque! Ok, ok, ok, it's not actually 'ON' ground zero itself, but it's TOO CLOSE! This islamic center is simply TOO CLOSE to ground zero! Right. And then people, even people as moronic as Chris Matthews, pressed with the obvious question - How far is far enough? Additionally, how can the resultant anti-Mosque (read: anti-Muslim/brown person) sentiment spilling over in cities across the country be explained through "proximity" to New York? This, of course, was met with much stuttering and behind-the-scenes strategy changes to steer away from such a bullshit argument. Which brings us to the next phase...

2) Wisdom: This is my favorite. I just fucking love this one. It so paralyzed Democrats that even Reid became willingly strung along for fear of losing the slim margin of white voter support that Biden managed to secure for the presidential win, a margin that conservatives have been successfully whittling away at for the past year. So the argument goes, "Of course NOBODY says they don't have the RIGHT to do it... but should they?". You know, considering the previous administration's actions and the general touting of 'conservative values' and upholding the constitution, it seems those same people have a severe case of JKLOL when it comes to protecting the very rights it guarantees. In the current congress alone, Republicans have proposed at least 42 constitutional amendments. But I digress. The fact is, whether or not you think this center should be built in its proposed location simply does not fucking matter. Whether or not you think your daughter's public school should exclude persons of color does not fucking matter. Whether or not you think a state law should never be overridden by a federal law does not fucking matter. Some might say "If you don't like it then gtfo of my country!". Does dissent matter? Absolutely. But this is not some honest reassessment of the wording of the Bill of Rights. It's already been said ad nauseam: This isn't about the First Amendment. Ok good, then that tells us the only reason this "story" hasn't fucking gone away yet is because it makes conservatives MAD and WANT TO VOTE, and the presence of so much ignorance and ill will toward Muslims generally serves as a catalyst to keep up the "story's"media momentum through the elections.

"But I am getting in touch with my inner pussy liberal and the building of this MOSQUE is so INSENSITIVE to me as a citizen, because that site 2 blocks away from the building is HALLOWED GROUND" you might say. Well, there's the largest and most telling conflation in this entire farce -- the idea that 'they' perpetrated 9/11. The Muslims. Now 'they' want to build their victory mosque!

Uh, hello? THERE IS NO 'THEY'.

Originally Posted by Congressman Nadler (D)

It is only insensitive if you regard Islam as the culprit, as opposed to Al Qaida as the culprit. We were not attacked by all Muslims.

The fact that these people in New York, these citizens who've done NOTHING to earn the ire directed at them but practice a faith that 4/10 US citizens 'don't take kindly to', are still being so nonchalantly equated to suicidal maniacs is fucking disturbing, sad, and not surprising. Fucking pathetic.


And in co-opting the bullshit formulation of the opposition, I ask (rhetorically):

Sure you have the RIGHT to stand up and try to argue for the circumvention of the First Amendment rights of Islamic residents of Manhattan, but wouldn't it be WISER to simply shut the fuck up?

[Rasterburn]

Originally Posted by isitatomic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sure you have the RIGHT to stand up and try to argue for the circumvention of the First Amendment rights of Islamic residents of Manhattan, but wouldn't it be WISER to simply shut the fuck up[/B]?

I'll tell you who needs to shut the fuck up: everybody who doesn't live in New York, that's who.

People seem to find it easy to tell some other state what they should or should not accept. But the tune often changes considerably when it's being built in your own backyard.

In the meantime, let's build a recruiting office for the American Nazi Party right next to a Jewish holocaust museum. Would that work for ya's..? Or how about if we dig up Lee Harvey Oswald and move his grave, so that he's buried right next to JFK's tomb. Or maybe we could even build a Church Of Satan right next to St. Patrick's Cathedral.

Doing any of the above would understandably lead to acts of desecration and violence. It's not just a 1st Amendment issue... it's also a civil unrest issue.

And there is still a question regarding the funding of this mosque project. It has been alleged that a sizable percentage of the funding is coming from Saudi Arabia and Iran... nations which have also financially backed terrorists in the past. If it was discovered that some of the people who are covertly funding this project were also involved in the financial backing for the 9/11 attacks, would everyone still feel that same way about allowing this mosque to be built..?

This is not an open-and-shut case. There is much to consider.

[Eternal-Elf]

Originally Posted by Rasterburn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll tell you who needs to shut the fuck up: everybody who doesn't live in New York, that's who.

People seem to find it easy to tell some other state what they should or should not accept. But the tune often changes considerably when it's being built in your own backyard.

In the meantime, let's build a recruiting office for the American Nazi Party right next to a Jewish holocaust museum. Would that work for ya's..? Or how about if we dig up Lee Harvey Oswald and move his grave, so that he's buried right next to JFK's tomb. Or maybe we could even build a Church Of Satan right next to St. Patrick's Cathedral.

Doing any of the above would understandably lead to acts of desecration and violence. It's not just a 1st Amendment issue... it's also a civil unrest issue.

And there is still a question regarding the funding of this mosque project. It has been alleged that a sizable percentage of the funding is coming from Saudi Arabia and Iran... nations which have also financially backed terrorists in the past. If it was discovered that some of the people who are covertly funding this project were also involved in the financial backing for the 9/11 attacks, would everyone still feel that same way about allowing this mosque to be built..?

This is not an open-and-shut case. There is much to consider.

You seem to be missing the point man. People here are so wound up on the fact that not ALL muslims are terrorists that they are blind to the fact that SOME are.
The fact he won't disclose how he got the money when only a year ago he was waiting tables does indicate that it is being funded by Iran.
Is that a problem? Could be ya.

I just love how these people are all about the "constitution" and blah blah blah. The constitution went out the window with Obama's health care plan.

GO over to Iran and try and build a Catholic church.

[fugazi]

Originally Posted by Eternal-Elf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You seem to be missing the point man. People here are so wound up on the fact that not ALL muslims are terrorists that they are blind to the fact that SOME are.
The fact he won't disclose how he got the money when only a year ago he was waiting tables does indicate that it is being funded by Iran.
Is that a problem? Could be ya.

I just love how these people are all about the "constitution" and blah blah blah. The constitution went out the window with Obama's health care plan.

GO over to Iran and try and build a Catholic church.

I like the values my country has and would prefer to stick to them even if other countries don't, so what does it matter whether Iran allows the construction of churches or not? Why are peaceful US citizens not allowed to construct a place of worship or a place of religious education? They have that right according to your constitution. What did they personally do to lose that right?

As for the guy (co-)financing it, isn't he a shareholder of the corporation that owns FoxNews? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[AexDestroy]

Originally Posted by Eternal-Elf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The constitution went out the window with Obama's health care plan.

The constitution went out the window so long ago it might as well have not been written.

[Qaedain]

Originally Posted by Eternal-Elf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The constitution went out the window with Obama's health care plan.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union... promote the general Welfare...

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Rasterburn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In the meantime, let's build a recruiting office for the American Nazi Party right next to a Jewish holocaust museum. Would that work for ya's..? Or how about if we dig up Lee Harvey Oswald and move his grave, so that he's buried right next to JFK's tomb. Or maybe we could even build a Church Of Satan right next to St. Patrick's Cathedral.

This is a horrible analogy. We're not talking about an al-qaeda training camp - we're talking about a mosque. Like the vast majority of mosques, it will probably be full of moderate muslims who do not espouse hateful ideas or extreme resentment towards the west. Stop generalizing about muslims.

Also E-E, how the fuck did the constitution go out the window because of Obama's healthcare plan?

[azeth]

@ Rasterburn in the above quote.

Flame aside, it's unfortunate you cannot see the difference between Islam and Terrorists.


Does the Jewish Defense League represent Jewish people? No they represent psycho/sociopaths.

[Delik]

-23 verified Muslims died in the 9/11 attacks, and no thats not counting the terrorists. Nor is it counting the muslim firefighters and first responders who are dealing with health issues currently or previously.

-The proposed site of the Mosque is approxiamtely 2 blocks away and not even viewable from ground zero

-The proposed site is already used as a prayer center for muslims and has been now for a while.

The only debate I see worth noting is the funding for the Mosque and the developer himself. I seriously doubt either will pass the scrunity required to move this project forward.