Why I don't like to group

[azeth]

Not that I assume you all are not considering it, but I find one of the real perks to soloing or duoing goes undermentioned. Not having to look for a group, or grind based on 4-5 other peoples schedules, I have found, is the real bonus to solo/duo experience versus group experience. When we leveled Meepo & Kashi it's not that grouping with 4 other people in a solid SolB Royals group (etc..) would have been that much worse experience per kill, it's that we can drop the same amount of mobs as a full group because we coordinate easily and do not have to wait for anyone.

[Rasterburn]

Some classes are so effective at soloing that it's a hard sell to get them to join a group and take an XP hit. For example: wizards, mages and especially pre-SOE necros (most OP'ed class in the game) have almost no incentive whatsoever to group, since they can quite easily solo their way to the top levels without any outside help. The same can be said for druids. Anybody who has watched a skilled wizzy or a druid quad-kiting in Cobalt Scar... getting four times the solo XP (and money) for roughly the same mana cost as they would expend on a single-mob pull... can easily understand why those classes might prefer to hunt solo. Just as you would understand after watching a pre-nerf necro (like my old main) soloing Lodizal in Iceclad. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[yaeger]

Originally Posted by Patch Notes

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May 27, 2003
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** Experience System Change - Grouping **

We've made some improvements to the way experience is rewarded in all
of EverQuest. At its core, the idea is to positively reinforce
grouping. There should never be any penalty to adding "that sixth
person over there," whatever class they may be, into your group. That
is exactly the type of behavior that should be rewarded.

In a massively multi-player game, any mechanic that penalizes those who
group is one that we need to take a serious look at. While there are
definite benefits to forming "well balanced" groups in terms of damage,
tanking, healing, and support, there shouldn't be an active penalty to
those who cannot find groups of "optimal" balance.

As it stands in EverQuest, groups gain a 2% to 20% experience bonus,
which we refer to as the "group bonus", for having two to six members.
In practice, however, this has never been much of a bonus, even in the
case of a full group, given that the experience was already being
divided six ways.

In the past, we had also attempted to reward people for adventuring in
the more challenging Planes of Power zones by making those zones give a
better rate of experience.

As of this update, groups now gain 20% to 80% "group bonus" experience
for having two to five members.

Full, six-person, groups now see an additional bonus. Their experience
is only divided five ways, yet they still gain the 80% "group bonus."
For those who think in terms of pie charts, it amounts to a larger
piece of a larger pie.

This is the earliest patch note that I could find where it refers to group experience. PoP is where I think they finally got balance down excellently between classes and between group/solo.

Though, it talks about previously having a +2% to +20% experience bonus for groups. Currently we only experience a +10% experience bonus with a full group.

Did I miss a patch note? Are we getting less exp than we should be with full groups?

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by Rasterburn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Anybody who has watched a skilled wizzy or a druid quad-kiting in Cobalt Scar...

That place was kind of an anomaly, though...I did that from 51-55 and it was, as you say, incredible exp and loot. I quad kited in the Scarlet desert after The Cobalt Scar, and although it was really good as well, it wasn't nearly as good xp or as easy as CS.

The problems with wizard quad kiting as a justification that they're uber soloers are as follows:

1) You can't sow yourself. Jboots become a necessity unless you want to waste a lot of time and mana (if you gate somewhere to get it) finding sows every 35 minutes. Jboots are still slower than high level sows.
2) Until 51 (Pillar of Frost), your AE spells are kinda junky in terms of mana efficiency- only a tad over a 1-1 mana-dmg ratio. Pillar of Frost is a sharp break from that and is nearly a 1-3 ratio. Atol's shackles (lvl 51 snare) is also a much better snare than bonds of force (lvl 29 snare).

Quad Kiting is still better solo xp than nearly any other option a wizard has available, but it really doesn't take off until post-50. Necros/Druids/Magi (or a well-geared monk killing blues in a good ZEM dungeon, for that matter) are far more efficient soloers, overall.

[Rasterburn]

It all depends upon your equipment. If you have the gear, as well as the skill to quad as a wizzy, then there are numerous zones where you can have lots of fun.

My alt was a wizzy, back during the Velious days. And the preferred gear was as follows:

(1) J-Boots (easy to get for a wiz).

(2) Staff Of Temperate Flux (insta-clicky from inventory, used for drive-by pulling at full running speed). Solo-able quest reward. Final stage is in Lake Rathe.

(3) Pillar Of Frost or Pillar Of Lightning AoE (depends upon mob resists).

(4) Atols' snare, but the lvl 29 snare works almost as well if you have J-Boots or a SoW pot.

(5) A brain boost buff. Clarity, KEI, whatever.

Procedure:

Pull all four mobs using Rod at full run speed. Run them into a tight circle. Get out ahead of them and then cast snare once (it's an AOE snare and you'll snag all four mobs at the same time). Then just blast them to bits. Lather, rise, repeat.

Favorite zones:

(1) Cobalt Scar (best $$$)
(2) The Grey (Luclin; need fishbone earring due to no air)
(3) Western Wastes

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by Rasterburn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It all depends upon your equipment. If you have the gear, as well as the skill to quad as a wizzy, then there are numerous zones where you can have lots of fun.

My alt was a wizzy, back during the Velious days. And the preferred gear was as follows:

(1) J-Boots (easy to get for a wiz).

(2) Staff Of Temperate Flux (insta-clicky from inventory, used for drive-by pulling at full running speed). Solo-able quest reward. Final stage is in Lake Rathe.

(3) Pillar Of Frost or Pillar Of Lightning AoE (depends upon mob resists).

(4) Atols' snare, but the lvl 29 snare works almost as well if you have J-Boots or a SoW pot.

(5) A brain boost buff. Clarity, KEI, whatever.

Procedure:

Pull all four mobs using Rod at full run speed. Run them into a tight circle. Get out ahead of them and then cast snare once (it's an AOE snare and you'll snag all four mobs at the same time). Then just blast them to bits. Lather, rise, repeat.

Favorite zones:

(1) Cobalt Scar (best $$$)
(2) The Grey (Luclin; need fishbone earring due to no air)
(3) Western Wastes

I'm aware of all this. The point was that until 51, quad kiting is nowhere near Necro/mage solo speeds. Even with Clarity and sow, quad kiting before 51 is slower than a necro/mage, particularly slower than a necro.

[Rasterburn]

Originally Posted by Messianic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm aware of all this. The point was that until 51, quad kiting is nowhere near Necro/mage solo speeds. Even with Clarity and sow, quad kiting before 51 is slower than a necro/mage, particularly slower than a necro.

I disagree, although I will admit that my mid-level quads were mostly in Luclin zones. Although prior to Luclin, there were some quad kiting opportunities for wizards in Great Divide (giants) and I did quad there from time to time. Also possible to quad in Eastern Wastes in the mid levels. It all depended upon how much competition there was for the pulls.

For instance, one of my wizzy alts liked to quad zelniaks and shrooms in Dawnshroud Peaks (Luclin). Very easy pulls and great XP for the 30-40 levels. After level 40, I'd move over to the Tenebrous Mountains on Luclin and quad the sonic wolves there. Lots of mobs and lots of XP per hour. Also nearly no competition, since that zone is rather remote if you can't port to it (and wizards can).

Those zones would get you from 30 to 51... and then it was time to head off to the Cobalt Scar gravy train. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Messianic]

Oh - In Velious - Rangers rival necros in solo efficiency when fighting animals (snare+Animal fear+beatdown).

[Aetherial]

Originally Posted by Messianic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh - In Velious - Rangers rival necros in solo efficiency when fighting animals (snare+Animal fear+beatdown).

Reality fear-kiting as a ranger is not like you described.

I did do that. I was nowhere near the efficiency of a necro, not to mention the fact that I had to find qualifying animals.

The reality... fear breaks, or is resisted or you are interrupted. In each of these cases the MOB gets a few seconds to beat on you. You lose health, as a ranger I can tell you that you last marginally longer than a cloth class. That means you need to self-heal, our heals were bad, our mana pool was tiny... which also means you need to med. Even if I never got hit, our mana pool was so small that self-buffs and fear, snare spell casts meant I had to med every handful of MOBS.

Also, even in very good gear at the time, I am not killing any animal worth decent exp too quickly. You still have to hunt blues. Reds and yellows will resist fear too many times.

[RKromwell]

Originally Posted by Aetherial [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Reality fear-kiting as a ranger is not like you described.

I did do that. I was nowhere near the efficiency of a necro, not to mention the fact that I had to find qualifying animals.

The reality... fear breaks, or is resisted or you are interrupted. In each of these cases the MOB gets a few seconds to beat on you. You lose health, as a ranger I can tell you that you last marginally longer than a cloth class. That means you need to self-heal, our heals were bad, our mana pool was tiny... which also means you need to med. Even if I never got hit, our mana pool was so small that self-buffs and fear, snare spell casts meant I had to med every handful of MOBS.

Also, even in very good gear at the time, I am not killing any animal worth decent exp too quickly. You still have to hunt blues. Reds and yellows will resist fear too many times.

This times 100.

I spent a lot of time in Eastern Wastes because I could solo there. That being said I would have to stay near the bridge to Ice Clad and pray I didn't get a lot of resist. I also couldn't do it on my own, I had to have crack or KEI to do so. Can Rangers solo, sure. Most would rather have a group though.