All these IB RNF's in the last day or so...

[Lazie]

Originally Posted by Lazie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's the thing IB expected us to just accept being absorbed and accept unreasonable terms. We were half of the raid force and most of the DPS at raids (Which has shown vibrantly true since the split). Getsome thought they were stronger than they were and assumed they would dictate terms to FE until they accepted. There was very little respect being shown and an ultimatum basically "that is happens this way or we stop raiding together".

He made the other options we had more admirable with his attitude. IB was in no position to demand terms to FE and "absorb" FE because we knew our options. We told him our options and he remained unreasonable. FE was not under pressure to be absorbed by IB instead of having equal footing. We actually wanted the merge to happen. Getsome set terms and had an attitude that wasn't respectful to anyone but himself. He made TMO the more appealing option by trying to strong arm FE into being absorbed without any of our concessions being met. If we wanted that we had other options stronger than IB.

BTW to all IB members who do not know this. During the last discussion FE had with Getsome about these concerns and stipulations of the merge...It was presented to him that he could even choose which FE officer would be co-leader... He said "IB will be raiding alone from this point forward" without even considering it. Your guild leader stopped all discussions at that moment. It wasn't FE who stopped trying to negotiate.

Fixed

[Pheer]

Originally Posted by Lazie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's the thing IB expected us to just accept being absorbed and accept unreasonable terms. We were half of the raid force and most of the DPS at raids (Which has shown vibrantly true since the split). Getsome thought they were stronger than they were and assumed they would dictate terms to FE until they accepted. There was very little respect being shown and an ultimatum basically "that is happens this way or we stop raiding together".

Been show vibrantly true? We've killed Hoshkar with 30 and you struggle on him with 55+.

Originally Posted by Lazie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He made the other options we had more admirable with his attitude. IB was in no position to demand terms to FE and "absorb" FE because we knew our options. We told him our options and he remained unreasonable. FE was not under pressure to be absorbed by IB instead of having equal footing. We actually wanted the merge to happen. Getsome set terms and had an attitude that wasn't respectful to anyone but himself. He made TMO the more appealing option by trying to strong arm FE into being absorbed without any of our concessions being met. If we wanted that we had other options stronger than IB.

And still you don't address the fact that none of your options were "existing as a guild" you keep dodging the issue that you were forced to merge with someone else. Youve convinced yourselves you were in some kind of allstar freeagent situation where you could dictate your contract when in reality TMO never would've even gone for a merge with you guys if they knew FE wouldnt be merging with IB otherwise.

Originally Posted by Lazie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

BTW to all IB members who do not know this. During the last discussion FE had with Getsome about these concerns and stipulations of the merge...It was presented to him that he could even choose which FE officer would be co-leader... He said "IB will be raiding alone from this point forward" without even considering it. Your guild leader stopped all discussions at that moment. It was FE who stopped trying to negotiate.

Literally everyone in IB knows this, but keep thinking theres some kind of coverup by Getsome.

BTW to all TMO members who dont know this, we regularly use Lazie's posts on your guild recruitment thread to get exact timers on mobs if we were too lazy to take note of it since he bumps your thread immediately every time a mob dies.

[Jarnauga]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Refused because no way we would have Unbrella as co-leader. I mean we're talking about Unbrella, the guy that trained his own guild on a unguilded monk to make belive it was TMO training them, LAL. or pretty much anyone from FE because:

Originally Posted by Xerxes

Lack of raid leadership. I challenge any one of you shit talkers to do what hokushin raden sloan shinko zeelot chest etc did/do for their guilds. It takes a certain personality to sucessfully lead a competitive raid guild. Lots of no lifers here but very few raid leaders. You can be the best at your class but if you cant lead a raid and lead it effectively under pressure from other guilds you lose. 20 people or 70 people it doesn't matter if you dont have that person its over.

But TMO (see my signature's links for an update on the history of mutual respect and friendship between FE and TMO) was a better option because.. well because. Unbrella said it was. There. They never were that terrible. Alarti is just a tender heart, and Tiggles ? i always thought he was funny ! And co-leadership is over rated. War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. Eurasia/TMO has never been the enemy, Estasia/IB always has been !

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Byrjun]

Originally Posted by Lazie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

IB. I mean lets be honest. Your leader thought it was fair to give no assurances to FE via a co-leader. If you want to point the finger at anyone for why the merge did no happen /tell to Getsome.

Laughable that you preface that with "let's be honest." Where is FE's co-leader within TMO? Oh that's right, you didn't get one.

So be honest yourself. This was 100% about loot, not integrity, or disrespect, or any of that bullshit. You picked TMO over IB for one reason: loot, and then tried to spin the decision on the forums. It's pretty hard to be dishonest about this when I've spoken to multiple people who said that FE decided to merge with TMO because they'd have more numbers and a better chance to kill Velious mobs.

[captain]

Why the fuck would IB agree to letting any leadership from FE become officers, when they let dumb shit happen. Like letting a monk loot a shroud? Hows that + mana going for you buddy? Please spin that one for me.

[sanforce]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Lazie]

Originally Posted by Pheer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Been show vibrantly true? We've killed Hoshkar with 30 and you struggle on him with 55+.



And still you don't address the fact that none of your options were "existing as a guild" you keep dodging the issue that you were forced to merge with someone else. Youve convinced yourselves you were in some kind of allstar freeagent situation where you could dictate your contract when in reality TMO never would've even gone for a merge with you guys if they knew FE wouldnt be merging with IB otherwise.



Literally everyone in IB knows this, but keep thinking theres some kind of coverup by Getsome.

BTW to all TMO members who dont know this, we regularly use Lazie's posts on your guild recruitment thread to get exact timers on mobs if we were too lazy to take note of it since he bumps your thread immediately every time a mob dies.

When have we struggled with Hoshkar ? We had a complete desync on him when you guys camped out during an engage. The rest of the time we have engaged Hosh we killed him with minimal losses. You guys still struggle to get dps to login to kill the dragons you pull.

This is literally the truth.. There was more respect from TMO leadership shown than from Getsome. From the first conversations they were the more reasonable and even minded people that discussed things with our leadership. It makes a difference. Respect goes a long way. IB has some great players so don't take what I say as disrespect. But if it comes to being absorbed it is the weaker option overall especially when the leadership is giving literally zero respect during discussion or concessions to make things easier for everyone to accept. Simple answer for merging Velious is on the horizon our goal was always to form the strongest guild we could.

When IB slammed the door via Getsome thinking we had to accept his terms or else and we wouldn't and he basically quit discussions because of his stubborness. It made the decision easy. People in our guild let go of their grudges to do what was best for everyone going forward. They were reasonable even though it was hard for a few of the members to let go of some things. It's saying a lot when those same members were unwilling to except IB's, terms but would work with TMO.

[kenzar]

more desync than wipe

[Jarnauga]

Originally Posted by Lazie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When have we struggled with Hoshkar ? We had a complete desync on him when you guys camped out during an engage. The rest of the time we have engaged Hosh we killed him with minimal losses. You guys still struggle to get dps to login to kill the dragons you pull.

This is literally the truth.. There was more respect from TMO leadership shown than from Getsome. From the first conversations they were the more reasonable and even minded people that discussed things with our leadership. It makes a difference. Respect goes a long way. IB has some great players so don't take what I say as disrespect. But if it comes to being absorbed it is the weaker option overall especially when the leadership is giving literally zero respect during discussion or concessions to make things easier for everyone to accept. Simple answer for merging Velious is on the horizon our goal was always to form the strongest guild we could.

When IB slammed the door via Getsome thinking we had to accept his terms or else and we wouldn't and he basically quit discussions because of his stubborness. It made the decision easy. People in our guild let go of their grudges to do what was best for everyone going forward. They were reasonable even though it was hard for a few of the members to let go of some things. It's saying a lot when those same members were unwilling to except IB's, terms but would work with TMO.

But why not co-leader of TMO though ?

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Jarnauga [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Refused because no way we would have Unbrella as co-leader. I mean we're talking about Unbrella, the guy that trained his own guild on a unguilded monk to make belive it was TMO training them, LAL. or pretty much anyone from FE because:

LOL IB on a high horse? You mean like (officer) Perun using SEQ getting suspended and taken back.
Or Daliant RMT, or Kinsawt and a large portion of your guild RMTing with a staff member.
Oh wait.... gmVirtuosos soulfire heal/recharging on raids, gmCyrius suspending people at his camps gmXzerion using the dev environment to give IB a leg up prior to VP instead of "developing".

Please tell me more about your ethics.