Sebilis Crypt Camp

[Millburn]

Is this really so difficult to mediate?

Just do it like this.

Crypt is a 4 slot camp, any individual or group can claim any part(s) of the 4 slot camp that they demonstrate as having the ability to clear and maintain and is not presently claimed by another individual or group. BAM done.

[loramin]

Can i just beg the GMs to not ignore the community? This forum community can't agree on anything, but everyone here seems to agree that it's incredibly lame for a soloer who is camping a mob to have that mob stolen by a group that comes along just because the group is bigger. The idea of that seems to directly contradict the spirit of P99, and I think that's why the community is reacting so strongly. This forum rarely has a consensus on anything, so when it does I think that's significant.

When it seems (like it does in this case) that its Derubai vs. everyone, then perhaps Derubai is not doing a good job of explaining why the old way of doing things was so problematic for the GMs. I completely understand that Derubai, and the GMs in general, have concerns the rest of us don't (they have to deal with the fallout of these decisions), but I think for them to completely ignore such unified opposition to this ruling is a mistake.

Please don't delete my post [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[fadetree]

To the staff :

How many routinely contested camps are there? 50 or so, tops? Why don't you just rigidly define and name each camp in terms of exactly what it comprises, and lay down exact rules for each camp or portion thereof? Then publish it in a document and then tell everybody to stfu and follow the document. If they don't like the camp definitions or the rules, they can go run their own server.

It will be a pain to get it written up, but I bet you would win big over time by not having to deal with everybody's opinions as to what a camp is and whats allowed.

[Coolname]

Originally Posted by fadetree [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To the staff :

How many routinely contested camps are there? 50 or so, tops? Why don't you just rigidly define and name each camp in terms of exactly what it comprises, and lay down exact rules for each camp or portion thereof? Then publish it in a document and then tell everybody to stfu and follow the document. If they don't like the camp definitions or the rules, they can go run their own server.

It will be a pain to get it written up, but I bet you would win big over time by not having to deal with everybody's opinions as to what a camp is and whats allowed.

This^^

[Spitty]

Derubael, you're best served by not turning this into quote-fest and spending some time thinking about your position here.

Imaginary scenarios, as fun as they are to use for strengthening your argument, are nowhere near the idiocy that I've witnessed or been subject to at this particular camp and never petitioned.

[Nastinate]

As Ive always understood it here and on live one person and or group can only lay claim to one named, set camps with more than one named were regulated by the players. Ive had groups on live and here on p1999 muscle into crypt while we have been clearing all the mobs, all you can do is just turtle into the heiro or duke room and wait em out, its classic. I honestly do not understand the problem as a gm if u receive a petition from a couple groups in crypt fighting over spawn's You just ask which one they are camping group a says heiro group b says duke, everything else is uncamped and up for grabs, problem solved. Personally ive always respected anyone be it solo or a group's right to camp the entire crypt so long as they can keep it all down within spawn time.

[Freakish]

I'm very curious about King Tranix. This is such a silly camp, its an 8 hour respawn and nobody in their right mind is going to stay there for 8 hours until he spawns time and again.

Is this actually a camp? Is it a FTE raid scenario? Do you have to clear the giants that you don't want to kill to get your Tranix down?

[Nirgon]

Classic rules do state that a GM has the final say on any camp decision, whether or not things were decided previously one way or another before.

You are also open as both parties in the area to work things out with the GM.

What the GM says is final.

So there's really no "right" and "wrong" you just gotta work things out with Deru by the classic handbook.

I think Jeremy's point is the right one given previous precedent, and maybe Deru can say "I will handle it this way in the future" (I hope).

However, nothing he decides to resolve a camp dispute at any point is wrong.

People are free to make decisions and complain, and based on his decision (how people are acting, how long certain people have been there) are up to him.

Welcome to governing a sand box MMO imo.

[Spitty]

I understand that you're not taking sides, Derubael, but your ruling exhibits favoritism. Whether intended or not, that's the reality of how this is going to play out.

Anyone that can demonstrate that they could clear the entire camp is going to be favored.

I'll submit just one example - I'm clearing duke, a solo player shows up and wants duke too and calls his buddies in. They proceed to clear the other 3 PHs, petition, I'm booted and then that solo player moves into duke and proceeds to do exactly what I was just doing, except with GM enforcement.

Best case, I leave camp and am extremely annoyed. Worst case, I monitor the situation, re-petition and now you're an hour into a service situation that could have been alleviated by simply enforcing the precedent that I was clearing a camp and am thus entitled to maintain that to the best of my ability.

What Jeremy and Nastinate have said is the best-case scenario, from my rather experienced perspective; there's an uneasy truce at crypt, but most people work things out on the spot.

It's not ideal if a group comes down and finds one person that's clearing duke, but they're demonstrating that they can legitimately and successfully clear that spawn and should be left alone. That has been, and ideally should be, the established precedent here.

To rule otherwise - besides the implied immorality of forcing people to stop doing what's within their means on this server - is going to have some immediate, unpleasant and far-reaching consequences.

[fadetree]

Originally Posted by baalzy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lets crowd source one then.

You can't crowd source it, it will dissolve into endless arguments. Again, there is no possibility of a 'clearly stated ruleset that everyone can agree on'. There isn't even one that 'most people would agree on'. The staff needs to do it using their own opinions, and then tell everybody to stfu.