Duration of Shared Grp XP Penalties

[Toony]

Originally Posted by Lucrio40 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You didn't really answer the question. Exploiters were banned in classic, but the exploits remained for years, it was up to GM's to catch them and players to tip off GM's.

I didn't answer the question because there wasn't one.

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[Striiker]

The shared XP penalty in groups should go away. It hurts groups and hurts players who have penalties. I have been in several groups since they quietly applied the patch to adjust the XP system. People noticed quickly that something was wrong / different. Once it was discovered that the XP change was in, people in groups are reluctant to take in hybrids especially when they have significant racial penalties. I tend to be in pick-up groups and have heard repeatedly that players try to avoid those who impact their XP gain unless they have no other option and need a particular class. I don't share this sentiment but I can't deny the facts that the difference is noticeable. This was made very clear one night in unrest. We were all lvl 25 with a 26 monk and a couple 24's. There was a lvl 25 Dwarf Paladin in the group who eventually left and was replaced by another lvl 25 non-hybrid class. XP picked up noticeably and our pull rate did not change. We were in the basement and were waiting for stuff to re-spawn (as was the case when the Paladin was with us).
I remember when this all went down on classic. People were very upset then (as they are now) and SOE had to change the XP system because it was hurting the hybrid / racial players (as now). They admitted that it was a mistake.
I'll continue to play here regardless of the XP system as I truly love the classic experience. I'm not "hardcore" though. I have a modified UI as it enhances my play experience. I like the challenges of leveling and the need to group. The XP penalty system though I think is a detractor from the overall experience and is something I would be happy to see removed.

[Toony]

Originally Posted by Striiker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The shared XP penalty in groups should go away. It hurts groups and hurts players who have penalties.

Define "hurts".

[Oogmog]

Originally Posted by Toony [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Define "hurts".

I'll take a stab at what he thinks "hurts" means. It "hurts" the group because the penalty that they have is inflicted on the group. They are not as efficient in the leveling department. It "hurts" the hybrid because they are not getting groups as often because of the penalty. You have just hit level 30. You have not experienced a Troll SK at level 45 in your group, so you haven't seen any real harsh "penalty" towards your group. (In which I've posted MANY times saying hell levels should not be distributed in the shared xp penalty and only got one response that directed me toward the developers link following the release of Velious and no mention of hell levels being included in shared penalty)

Since I've started playing my warrior again over the past few days, many people have said that they cannot tell a huge aggro difference between me and a SK/Pal which makes them less inclined to invite SK/Pals from there on out.. and every group I have been in has flat out said they will not invite hybrids, and the only one that would get a pass would be a bard if and only if no chanters were available for a group. Say what you will, but you were playing in a different level bracket when all this came down.. no hell levels and the need for a well balanced group composition wasn't exactly required. Hit 40+, when the leveling is slow for everyone to begin with, and see how much these penalties "hurt" both sides. The only players we're hearing from are in the teens-30's brackets.. I'd like to see how many hybrids are getting groups 40+ on a consistent basis, especially seeing 37+ you have Yak capable warriors.

[Toony]

Originally Posted by Oogmog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll take a stab at what he thinks "hurts" means. It "hurts" the group because the penalty that they have is inflicted on the group. They are not as efficient in the leveling department. It "hurts" the hybrid because they are not getting groups as often because of the penalty. You have just hit level 30. You have not experienced a Troll SK at level 45 in your group, so you haven't seen any real harsh "penalty" towards your group. (In which I've posted MANY times saying hell levels should not be distributed in the shared xp penalty and only got one response that directed me toward the developers link following the release of Velious and no mention of hell levels being included in shared penalty)

Guess I'll get back to you in 20 levels. Although I have a feeling I'll have pretty much the same opinion as the first time I leveled to 50 in classic, pre-kunark, pre-velious.

[eqholmes]

I thought the penalty was going to kill my ranger getting groups, but I was wrong. Since the penalty has come out I have yet to be shunned anymore than normal. I feel out of all the hybrids that the Ranger is the one most likely to get screwed, but if I’m still getting groups how bad can it be for bards/sk/pals? Hell I’m the hired hand for tanking 80% of the time and most people are like dam rangers aren’t that bad after all.

Holmes 50 Nerco DA
Gretzky 44 Ranger DA (NEW MAIN probably)

[Bumamgar]

Originally Posted by Oogmog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

only got one response that directed me toward the developers link following the release of Velious and no mention of hell levels being included in shared penalty

Hell levels weren't mentioned in the producer's letter because at the time that letter was written, Varent/SOE were still denying the existence of hell levels. Hell levels weren't acknowledged till Sep 4th, 2002 (A few months before PoP went live).

[Striiker]

Originally Posted by Toony [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Define "hurts".

Funny you ask. I had started writing in how things hurt groups and hurts players but deleted it..

It hurts groups by virtue of slowing down their XP increases. Some (such as myself) don't care about this aspect as we are here to have fun hanging out with people, killing stuff and getting items / plat to improve our characters. The XP just happens. It is still a "hurt" to the group as XP gain is a very important aspect of the game. Some people put a lot of focus on their XP gain which we should not begrudge as it is an aspect of the game which makes them happy.

The hurt to players are the ones with the racial / class penalties. Some of this is not applicable to all players.
- Groups refuse to group with high XP penalty players. (hurt to all). Many would say that you are better off but it sucks if you spend over an hour LFG or trying to put together a group with no success.
- Groups, if given the choice, will pick other non/lower XP penalty classes to fill slots. This is the classic Warrior and SK both are LFG. The group will pick the warrior. Same applies to racial penalties and this is even higher when the racial and class penalties are present in one player.
- Some players feel badly about bringing their XP penalty to a group. Some players will prefer to shelf their character and start an alt. or try their hand at soloing instead. I really feel badly for these players and I am sure that they would be great to group with.

[Oogmog]

Originally Posted by Bumamgar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hell levels weren't mentioned in the producer's letter because at the time that letter was written, Varent/SOE were still denying the existence of hell levels. Hell levels weren't acknowledged till Sep 4th, 2002 (A few months before PoP went live).

Like I responded in another thread, did you not play classic? A level 45 would level MUCH slower than a level 43 in the same group. 99% of the people playing on this server can verify this as being truth. Here, a level 45 in groups levels at the same rate as that same level 43. That is not how it was on classic.

[Oogmog]

Also, to add more insight on the subject Bum, I would just like some clarification on your interpretation of the Verant's dev letter.

On classic, everyone dreaded the hell levels. Correct?
On classic, nobody knew about shared XP penalties. Correct?

So with that said, why would people dread hell levels since the penalty would then be shared with the group making the level rate the same for everyone in the group, but in fact, nobody knew that this was taking place? I really don't want to come off like a jerk, but everyone and their brother knew 30-35-40-45 sucked to go through... and if their penalty was shared, the only people that would ever truly recognize a hell level would be someone that only solo'ed and could notice the experience difference in those levels.