Not even sure why the Devs put up with all this

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by Uggme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok, so the short story is that the guild has been burned, in your opinion, by persons who do not put in the kind of effort you'd like. So, as punishment to regular players who do put in a lot of time (just not as much as you'd like) and to further benefit those with so much time / plat that they have alts, you implemented a rule allowing them to get loot ahead of mains. It's a justification alright. I still don't agree. And trust me, I'm an educated individual and quite open. This still stinks of elitism and corrupt rules for those who lead the guild, which set a horrible precedent for the rest of the server. If the guild is so fabulously rich and ahead of the game then it stands to risk gear on potentially strong relationships with members. Regardless, the Officer Award method on it's own clearly states the intention to gear only those the leadership deems worthy. There are biases. There are prejudices. What you are doing is blinding yourself to it.

I fully agree with you that the current loot method is set up to be completely at the discretion of the decision makers, and that it is, potentially, quite dangerous. However, I disagree that such a system is damaging to the internal framework of the guild as a whole. Perhaps it does not foster as much "community" within the guild as some other manner of governance might, but it accomplishes its purposes: balancing player effort versus the needs of the organization.

The dangerous element is ameliorated by well-earned trust. Not only is half the loot council made of regular members, but its composition is dynamic. It's very bicameral. There's an established track record of reasonable decisions. Yes, there have been terrible calls, but the organization as a whole is still satisfied. Keep in mind a strong motivation for many in TMO is not so much the acquisition of individual gear, but the strengthening of the guild itself. A few months ago, I looked at a number of large loot calls and noted that if we were on a straight DKP system that many of our trackers could have purchased more gear than they've been awarded. It was my observation that this system succeeds, to a reasonable degree, at its goal of putting the organization somewhat first, or at least, or at least at keeping the overall needs as co-equal with the individual needs.

That said, this is still a strictly an internal matter, and I do not see a good reason for third parties to have any say in this matter. The precedent set within TMO's loot council has no impact upon the internal management of other guilds or the server in general.

Originally Posted by Uggme

The fact that there is just one slightly needed item off of certain mobs is irrelevant. This is due to the fact that Zeelot has openly stated he makes sure loot doesn't rot because he sells it. It'd obvious this one one of the main reasons these mobs are killed. You're right, however, that it's not TMO's obligation to allow rots to simply given away. But the main issue actually lies in your own statement! That is you, and apparently the leadership, views rotting loot as "money left on the table". It's not. It's gear in a game. A free game, made for the enjoyment of many. Or is TMO and it's leadership so petty and conniving in it's attempt to stay on top by monopolizing everything that it can't remember that? It would be so easy for TMO to be significantly less monopolizing regarding this exact thing to accomplish.... what? Oh that's right, this brings me to the last point. -Engaging in the betterment of the server and the betterment of TMO's rep!

This is really a matter of degree. We can turn the same logic around and deride any regular participant in the EC tunnel. We can apply the same standard to someone camping the fungi for cash. The issue is what motivates players and how they define enjoyment from the game. There are some players here who play the game strictly to trade in the EC tunnel, and some have become quite wealthy.

I agree that it would be bad form to kill things strictly for the cash, and if the items on that mob were minor upgrades at best the situation would be similar. However, these are VP dragons we're talking about and each one possess loot of an extremely desirable nature. Silverwing drops the PE hammer which many of our shamans lack still, Druushk drops the extremely coveted SoW sword, Hoshkar has the cleric stick and the haste boots, Nexona has the monk stick and the necro robe, Phara`Dar is self-explanatory, and Xygoz has the Druid Robe and the RSSS.

None of these dragons are anywhere near close to being unneeded in any serious capacity.

Originally Posted by Uggme

See, I don't hate TMO. I think they are run poorly, and the abscense of oversight has led it's leadership and to some degree the guild as a whole to think they can just do whatever the hell they want. In the end, I suppose they can. But those actions, if they negatively affect the server (which it appears they do) should go punished. They aren't by the guild's leadership. Some are even supported by the guild's leader! Thus, my original question in the title of this thread.

I'm uncertain as to what actions in specific you're talking about that TMO takes that harms the server. Note, I'm not disregarding that you may have valid complaints, but the nature of the discussion is defined by what those complaints are.

I'm guessing that you're talking about the categorical domination of raid content. There's two issues at play here. First, yes it is silly to kill something every single time when you reach a certain point. Individually, most players will freely admit that "endangered dragon lists" and things are quite beneficial to the server. (Yes, I know some view the lists as elitist table scraps; I'm just using it as one example of collaborative play for server health). However, raiders on the high-end play to compete and it is a demonstrable fact that when you start "losing," even temporarily, that your attendance numbers take a hit. It's quite interesting from a social and managerial perspective, but this leads to an impetus to take as many kills as possible to "keep the fire going" if you will.

Secondly, this server has a very entrenched way of doing things. This does not excuse any wrongful behavior, but it does mean that it is quite difficult to uproot certain practices. Additionally, some practices are in response to other issues, which were responses, and you have a cycle of recursion.

I submit that much of what you see is a public relations issue and not an actual situation of culpable in-game conduct. TMO and it's leadership certainly have culpable skeletons in their closets (some quite large), but their degree and quantity is frequently misconstrued in the public discourse.

[jpeute]

Originally Posted by Harrison Remembers [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

More wannabe lawyer spam to defend his cheating guild.

If u have nothing to say, say nothing...

[Kagatob]

Originally Posted by Rellapse11 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

moran

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[Kagatob]

Every time someone misspells moron Jesus eats a live kitten. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Rellapse11 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

people do it on purpose to troll people like you

It's a very common thing on P99 RnF too, makes it sad when others fall for it.

RNF newbs [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Bazia]

Originally Posted by Kagatob [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Every time someone misspells moron Jesus eats a live kitten. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

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