Luclin

[Swish]

Well I'm done with Velious over everyone posting a ton of screenshots, talking about what they'll camp and asking incessantly for a firm release date.

Bring on teh cats, bring on teh moon...

[mwatt]

I have to agree with many that said PoP was the real beginning of the end. I personally think that the customer base was bifurcated into those that could spend hours and hours raiding and keying and those that could not. Yes this exists in Kunark but the gear disparity is not that bad. Granted, some VP gear is pretty damn good but it is only the elite that get that not a significant percentage of the majority, so the bifurcation has less impact. With increased gear disparity it requires double content in every release - this is one of the unrecognized downfalls to the SOE approach back then.

I also agree with those who say that "Cats on the Moon" suck. I always thought so, I am not just parroting Nilbog's stance like some others. It was disrespectful to the genre to do this.

Finally I will also agree with some that I could probably stand Luclin here, because there is more good than bad. AAs are great. Some of the Luclin zones are great. Level 65 is great (that IS Luclin is it not?). Perhaps if we had a Luclin with no cats and no bazaar, that might fly. I would vote for making the models optional.

[iifetap]

Originally Posted by mwatt [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Level 65 is great (that IS Luclin is it not?). Perhaps if we had a Luclin with no cats and no bazaar, that might fly. I would vote for making the models optional.

65 was PoP.

[mgellan]

People on progression servers vote to open new expansions so they can progress to new server firsts, beat the competition on decade old content, and thus compensate for having really really tiny penises...

Regards,
Mg

[Weekapaug]

Oh, and reading back thru both of our posts, I have to add this...

Why do I want to change this into what? Are you suggesting that there isn't mudflation going on like MAD on P99?

I don't recall ANY point during the classic era when fucking alts were running around with epics at level 10. When EVERY rogue you see on the server has a funghi and a 1.0. You? A monk alt with a funghi and dual trance sticks at level 30 was kind of a big deal then. How about here, eh? They rain from the sky.

To suggest that, somehow, Luclin would shit up the server by inflating it, at this point, is absurd. The server IS inflated and we don't even have Velious yet.

And if you are suggesting that Luclin introduced a "lack of class disctinction" I would ask this: Did you even fucking play in Luclin or do you get all of your info from these forums? Or, by "class distinction," do you mean some classes SHOULD be completely useless?

Pass the Kool Aide.

[t0lkien]

Um, gosh.

I'd compare gamer cred with you (I've been gaming since before Pong appeared on table top machines - the first computer game I played was on a main frame, and I still remember the afternoon I clocked an original Spacer Invaders machine) but I really don't think it's relevant. These discussions have been done before, it's tiring and ultimately pointless to repeat it all. There are many who disliked Luclin, and have laid out their reasons, irrespective of what you consider "horseshit" - amongst them the guys who built this server. Mudflation is the least of the issues. Why you would think any of it has to do with some sort of bitter grapes about advancement or something... is a bit bizarre (as is your tone btw). I don't understand, do you consider yourself some sort of authority who can't be wrong or disagreed with, that justifies you raging like a 15 year old? Noone's attacking you. You may want to look up the meaning of apologist; it's not an insult.

It's fine you liked what happened after Luclin and beyond, but wanting Luclin *here* is not what the server is about (the possibility of Nilbog implementing some part of the Luclin expansion after Velious notwithstanding - that would be the end of the game for me however).

[fastboy21]

luclin was the embrace of BIG force raiding in earnest...probably hitting its height at the rathe council in pop. if you were a raider, luclin was a ton of content for you and your best 70 or so raiding friends.

i loved it. lore-wise it was hit or miss. the whole story line was weird and unfinished. in the end it was all about end game zone loot, much more so than any previous expansion.

at least in kunark folks were somewhat aware of the ring of scale and in velious folks had some understanding of the war between giants and dragons...luclin had a story, but i challenge most folks to explain it without looking it up.

Vex Thal...maybe the most boring end game raid zone ever. compared to ST, ntov, vp, and even ssraa (also in luclin) it was just not good content. giant zone filled with tedious high hp mobs and bosses. the greatest risk was falling asleep 8 hours into the clear and wiping.

[idontbuff]

I found ssra to be the most fun I had in Luclin, although the expac in general was utter shit.

[pasi]

Luclin ended up being a really solid expansion - it just sucked at first. Anyhow, long post incoming.

I'd go as far as to say the modrod change was the greatest change to raiding in EQ's history. If you have never raided Velious or Luclin before the change - you basically have magicians face a wall and throw 100s of modrods to the floor so the CHeal rotating clerics never go OOM as your DPS autoattacks whatever bad dude that can't possibly kill your tank getting CHealed every 2 seconds. Post rod change, everything got huge HP nerfs and modrods received a cooldown.

Bazaar > EC. I guess there's some people that enjoy the people aspect of EC, but I liked being able to PvP (arena in bazaar) while buying/selling. I enjoyed being able to leave a second account online selling stuff, but I'm someone who would rather play outside of EC.

The whole cats on the moon thing is overblown since Shar Vhal is way the fuck in the middle of no where. I think I went there twice over my entire course of EQ live.

The spires shrinked the world, but using them was still far less desirable than getting a port. It took up to 30 minutes to go from one limited destination to another.

Like every expansion, itemization was fucked at first, but ended up being great. The AC/HP/Mana difference between Luclin and Velious was very small, but the difference was focus effects, more available ATK gear, and more FT gear. Basically, gear became a lot more attractive for non-tanks. Contrast this to Kunark where I choose to gear my 5th alt over my main because a Crude Stein at 20pp is 95% as effective as an Insignia Protector at 150k.

The concept of elemental and bane damage is interesting, but never fully realized. Elemental damage was generally regarded as 1/3rd as effective as weapon damage; however, the aggro per swing of elemental damage is the same as weapon damage. In other words, they could have made proc-less weapons desirable by tanks but not DPS.

Luclin started to modernize raids. You started to see encounters that weren't just a hitbox with an AOE. I posted about this before, but I think the reason Velious encounters are so well received compared to the more complex Luclin encounters has to do with the NPC models being the same and the bleaker environment. If you're not sold on that idea, go look at how well Gates of Discord was received from an aesthetic standpoint.

SSra Temple was one of the better raid zones EQ ever put out. Every encounter there was quality with the exception of Xerkizh the Creator who was basically a Velious-era fight carried over.

I never did Acrylia 1.0 outside of the Ring of Fire and Burrower. Ring of Fire was an amazing fight when it actually worked. I think only Ring of Valor ever ended up doing Inner Acrylia. There was the whole Grimling War raid that never got done much until EQmac years later.

Vex Thal was a huge disappointment outside of the loot. I'll give this point up to the Luclin haters. So. much. trash. The zone was pretty, the loot was awesome, and blinding Eoms were hilarious, but still a piece of shit zone.

Toward the end of Velious, you started to see a return to groupable gear not being terrible with the revamp of Chardok. This continued in Luclin and probably culminated with the revamp of Cazic Thule. Cazic Thule post-revamp was fucking awesome as an exp zone.

AAs give people progression outside of gear (raiding).

And for the first time in EQ's history, the developers tried to give a fuck about balance. Druids become ok again, rangers stop sucking, paladins get something to do on raids, mages stop being vending machines, necros become a real DPS class, wizards stop sucking in sustained fights, etc.

Luclin, fuck yeah.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by pasi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Luclin started to modernize raids. You started to see encounters that weren't just a hitbox with an AOE. I posted about this before, but I think the reason Velious encounters are so well received compared to the more complex Luclin encounters has to do with the NPC models being the same and the bleaker environment. If you're not sold on that idea, go look at how well Gates of Discord was received from an aesthetic standpoint.

I'm sure Nilbog considers Velious the end of P1999, but personally I think it would be fun to add some of the zones from later expacs (with mobs and itemization appropriately retuned).