Agro with the new patch

[Encroaching Death]

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[7thGate]

Originally Posted by Allishia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I had zero agrro issues with red blade + nev horn. But any other combo it pings too much.

Tried low delay weps krezien flame + horn, it's just isn't enough without the red blade proc. Krezien flame offhand wasn't enough to sustain agro without procs at all. Jaleen katana was even worse..

Need the proc from red blade or eventually dps will out agro your swing agro.

I think this in part is dependent on what your DPS is swinging too; you have to tank for some very high damage/low delay DPS setups.

Its interesting, because if there's an aggro limiter on Rogue engage, it probably shifts the optimal weapon setup. I have an Axe of Resistance on my offhand. If the offhand is still adding the damage bonus to aggro per swing, then Claw of Lightning compared to Axe of Resistance would be generating (25/18)/(26/24) = 1.27x the Aggro from offhand swings, while doing (14/18)/(15/24) = 1.24x the damage. If the Rogue is aggro limited in how they can engage and requires a backoff, the Axe is actually higher total damage because it has a higher damage per unit aggro ratio; the Rogue can engage earlier and back off less than one using Claw to exceed the same total damage, in theory.

Using Epic probably becomes optimal in an aggro limited situation because +ATK adds to damage without adding to aggro generation, which I suspect will cause it to outperform basically anything from a damage per unit aggro metric.

I'm using Ragebringer+Axe and have had no aggro issues since the patch. I'm on that weapon setup because I haven't had a chance to get anything with better ratios, since the highest end stuff is fairly uncommon for Sanctum to get. Now I'm not sure I even want to try saving for bids on higher end weapons instead of just engaging a little earlier and saving DKP for other gear. Axe of Resistance is already one of the highest damage per unit aggro generated weapons, I think only eclipsed by Razor Sharp Shortsword in the 0.6+ ratio weapons. And its BIS for resists.

[CancerMage]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is odd because as far as I recall mobs are always supposed to attack a player over a pet if the player in in range aren’t they? If that’s not longer the case enchanters in a group can be even more OP now because their charmed mob can tank while melee players dps

didn't work this way even before the agro switch, you could jig it so pet took damage.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by magnetaress [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Tbh I trust Jimjam more than anyone on EQ topics.

Even tho I have disagreement about agi and AC and what constitutes a "shield" with thems.

Leatherfoot Raiders are NOT shields, we are mighty warriors!

[Allishia]

Originally Posted by 7thGate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think this in part is dependent on what your DPS is swinging too; you have to tank for some very high damage/low delay DPS setups.

Its interesting, because if there's an aggro limiter on Rogue engage, it probably shifts the optimal weapon setup. I have an Axe of Resistance on my offhand. If the offhand is still adding the damage bonus to aggro per swing, then Claw of Lightning compared to Axe of Resistance would be generating (25/18)/(26/24) = 1.27x the Aggro from offhand swings, while doing (14/18)/(15/24) = 1.24x the damage. If the Rogue is aggro limited in how they can engage and requires a backoff, the Axe is actually higher total damage because it has a higher damage per unit aggro ratio; the Rogue can engage earlier and back off less than one using Claw to exceed the same total damage, in theory.

Using Epic probably becomes optimal in an aggro limited situation because +ATK adds to damage without adding to aggro generation, which I suspect will cause it to outperform basically anything from a damage per unit aggro metric.

I'm using Ragebringer+Axe and have had no aggro issues since the patch. I'm on that weapon setup because I haven't had a chance to get anything with better ratios, since the highest end stuff is fairly uncommon for Sanctum to get. Now I'm not sure I even want to try saving for bids on higher end weapons instead of just engaging a little earlier and saving DKP for other gear. Axe of Resistance is already one of the highest damage per unit aggro generated weapons, I think only eclipsed by Razor Sharp Shortsword in the 0.6+ ratio weapons. And its BIS for resists.

Yes definitely depends on the dps. Most of our rogues/monks are near bis and also a little slow and think they can attack the mob before the war even positions it lol [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Danth]

Originally Posted by Allishia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes definitely depends on the dps. Most of our rogues/monks are near bis and also a little slow and think they can attack the mob before the war even positions it lol [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do your melee at least blur what aggro they can with feign death / evade? At the lower-middle tier I hang out in it's somewhat rare to see rogues or monks even try to manage their own aggro. Quite often they balk if asked.

I'll see if I can convince the wife to log on later and I'll do some trials of proportionate spellthreat values. Supposedly the P99 admins have already said somewhere that current values are not intended and will be revised, but we still want some idea of what's what because we have to live with it for some unknown length of time 'till the next update.

Danth

[Chortles Snortles]

noticing mobs aggroing through walls proximity even if LOS

[Encroaching Death]

Originally Posted by Chortles Snortles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

noticing mobs aggroing through walls proximity even if LOS

In Kaesora?

[Danth]

I will add in similar observations as others have noted,. after duo'ing for awhile with the wife (60 SK/60 SHM).

--Disease Cloud is extremely low aggro, roughly 1/4 the aggro of most other spells.

--The majority of other spells all add about the same aggro, if not the same, very close to it. This includes various snares and debuffs a Shadow Knight has access to as well as the various spells the wife's Shaman was using (malo, slow, damage over time spells, etc). We could flip aggro around pretty much cast-per-cast regardless of what we were using, other than the aforementioned low-aggro Disease Cloud.

--Spell aggro in general feels distinctly weak. I *could* out-aggro my shadow knight pet from a distance, using snares or AC debuffs, but it often required multiple casts if the pet had been in melee for more than a few seconds. Likewise, the SK's auto-attack was sufficient to turn a mob off the shaman pretty quickly, within a few rounds, after something like a slow. While I had no other melee types to test against, I feel I would struggle or be unable to keep aggro off higher-damage melee types based on this experience.

I was told the devs said something to the effect that they're aware of irregularities with hate generation. Where was this posted?

Danth

[Allishia]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do your melee at least blur what aggro they can with feign death / evade? At the lower-middle tier I hang out in it's somewhat rare to see rogues or monks even try to manage their own aggro. Quite often they balk if asked.

I'll see if I can convince the wife to log on later and I'll do some trials of proportionate spellthreat values. Supposedly the P99 admins have already said somewhere that current values are not intended and will be revised, but we still want some idea of what's what because we have to live with it for some unknown length of time 'till the next update.

Danth

They are starting to learn. I have to keep yelling at them though [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]