religion

[Patriam1066]

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

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LOL
HAHAHAHA God damn that's funny

[Toofliss]

I'm not sure why I came back to read countless more pages of shit slinging. At the end of the day there are some people who remain open minded and others who have closed down to opposing thoughts.

I stated many pages back that I've spent many years as someone who was confident there was no God. My schooling (college included) led me to an arrogance that we as a species were just that fucking good that we could figure it all out (or even worse, we had it figured out). Since that time I went through some serious searching, doubting, and looking at things for myself.

While the die hard posters here likely won't be convinced one way or another, I'd simply ask the others that you give my view a bit of a look. Take some time to be quiet. Look with an open mind and a desire to understand everything that happens all around us. From the smallest functions of life to the biggest feats of the universe. Take time to digest everything that is taking place.

Can you honestly still say all of the rules, all of the amazing things that operate in harmony, and the wonderful interconnection between all of this that makes our world possible is all just coincidence? The incredible details with such small tolerances for error just happen to be exactly what they needed to be?

If you're able to make that decision, then I see no other word to describe your view than faith. When I look at the exact same amazing coincidences, it all points to an overwhelming abundance of evidence. It wasn't until I was truly willing to challenge what I had been taught the first few decades of my life that I started to see things differently.

Maybe you'll see things in a different light, maybe you won't. I felt I owed it to myself to explore all options, even if they seemed improbable (hell, impossible when I started). I don't post in threads like this to try and prove you guys wrong. Instead, maybe someone else is lurking and perhaps they're someone like me.

Now you may continue with the shit slinging -- if you want to contact me, private message or in game works best. I won't be back to view countless pages of attacks.

[Eliseus]

Originally Posted by Toofliss [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can you honestly still say all of the rules, all of the amazing things that operate in harmony, and the wonderful interconnection between all of this that makes our world possible is all just coincidence? The incredible details with such small tolerances for error just happen to be exactly what they needed to be?

This is actually one reason that some devout Atheists that have studied DNA strands have changed their perspective on life. Not that they are claiming God and Jesus Christ are the supreme rulers of this World, but the idea that a superior being doesn't just probably exist, but must.

[paulgiamatti]

Originally Posted by Toofliss [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can you honestly still say all of the rules, all of the amazing things that operate in harmony, and the wonderful interconnection between all of this that makes our world possible is all just coincidence? The incredible details with such small tolerances for error just happen to be exactly what they needed to be?

No reasoned atheist is suggesting that this is the case. We're simply saying that rejecting any idea that jumps to the conclusion of a divine, unfaltering supernatural entity being the creator of it all is a much more rational and logical stance to take.

[RobotElvis]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No reasoned atheist is suggesting that this is the case. We're simply saying that rejecting any idea that jumps to the conclusion of a divine, unfaltering supernatural entity being the creator of it all is a much more rational and logical stance to take.

So you believe in/accept a supernatural force?
An impersonal one i mean.

[paulgiamatti]

Originally Posted by RobotElvis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So you believe in/accept a supernatural force?
An impersonal one i mean.

No. I believe the existence of a supernatural realm is unlikely, and there is not enough evidence to support such a claim. I am not definitively claiming it doesn't exist either; that would also be an unsubstantiated claim.

[Eliseus]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No. I believe the existence of a supernatural realm is unlikely, and there is not enough evidence to support such a claim. I am not definitively claiming it doesn't exist either; that would also be an unsubstantiated claim.

[Toofliss]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No reasoned atheist is suggesting that this is the case. We're simply saying that rejecting any idea that jumps to the conclusion of a divine, unfaltering supernatural entity being the creator of it all is a much more rational and logical stance to take.

So how about a super intelligent entity being the creator of it all? Is that rational and logical to you? Remove divine and supernatural -- would you conclude that evidence points toward these rules being established by some entity?

Or the ship has already sailed and no matter how hard you look at this scenario, someone putting all these laws and rules into place is simply impossible?

[RobotElvis]

Originally Posted by Toofliss [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So how about a super intelligent entity being the creator of it all? Is that rational and logical to you? Remove divine and supernatural -- would you conclude that evidence points toward these rules being established by some entity?

Or the ship has already sailed and no matter how hard you look at this scenario, someone putting all these laws and rules into place is simply impossible?

There is no instance on the natural world where design does not implicate intelligence.
And intelligence implicates personality.

If there is consistent design in nature, then it comes from an intelligent source, that is an immutable consistency.

If there is an intelligent source then it has a personality of its own, that to is an immutable consistency.

[paulgiamatti]

Originally Posted by Toofliss [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So how about a super intelligent entity being the creator of it all? Is that rational and logical to you? Remove divine and supernatural -- would you conclude that evidence points toward these rules being established by some entity?

No, not in the least. To believe such a claim to be true, we would need huge, irrefutable, massive, undisputed evidence.

You simply contemplating The Big Questions in life, looking carefully at the universe and thinking, "Hmm, this seems designed!" is not enough evidence. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I am saying it's illogical and irrational to definitively believe that this is the case.