Post here every time you are disappointed by no Red 2.0 news

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Tradesonred [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So the mechanic that helped empty the server is now useful since red its a ghost town.

The mechanic didn't empty the server whatsoever. The server was at its height when it had yellow text and global ooc, after the exp bonus and LnS rules were put in. New players were able to ask questions in ooc, people could sell/buy items, and the yellow text allowed people to create names for themselves and helped to show where the action was happening, so people could go try to actually PvP.

I've gone back and read some posts from 2012, and the server was dead back then, before it had global ooc. Most people were asking for it to be implemented and from all accounts it improved the server. This should be obvious too. Unless there's a high population and you can actually interact with a good amount of people in most zones you go to, then there needs to be a way to connect the players better, or else it feels too empty.

Again, what killed the server was imbalance and Velious itself. There needs to be anti-zerg measures so we can have constant relatively fair competition, there needs to be some better PvP mechanics to make the actual combat more interesting, and we need to stay in Kunark so the playerbase isn't too split up and forced to spend time grinding awful PvE.

Originally Posted by Tradesonred [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There are many ways to put in mechanics that foster pvp. One of them is events like the ones on live in halloween 2001 where event mobs spawn in different zones. Its harder to code than yellow text im sure, but if we cant have that, no yellow text is better. XP hotzones is another, where as a newb you can prefer a quiet zone away from the dangers of a hotzone.

Those things would be good and should exist alongside yellow text.

One of the biggest flaws in your logic about yellow text being bad is you said it alerted more griefers to go attack the person being griefed. That's inaccurate, because if some twinked griefer killed an easy target, then the griefer who's there is already able to corpse camp the person, if they don't want to call LnS. Additional people going over there doesn't make it worse for that person who got killed, it makes it better, because the twinked alts can start fighting each other instead.

[JayDee]

I know a lot of vztz people remember the Rile event in everfrost. That was very well done and in corner of the map that is not in use anyways. Rewards were strong but not terribly OP for the era.

I just don't see as programmer willing to spend the hours to make such an event

Definitely going to need to wait out New World launch anyways. Everyone and their mammies gonna be playing.

[Tradesonred]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The mechanic didn't empty the server whatsoever. The server was at its height when it had yellow text and global ooc, after the exp bonus and LnS rules were put in. New players were able to ask questions in ooc, people could sell/buy items, and the yellow text allowed people to create names for themselves and helped to show where the action was happening, so people could go try to actually PvP.

The height of the server was at launch, when it had 600 players or close to it.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've gone back and read some posts from 2012, and the server was dead back then, before it had global ooc. Most people were asking for it to be implemented and from all accounts it improved the server. This should be obvious too. Unless there's a high population and you can actually interact with a good amount of people in most zones you go to, then there needs to be a way to connect the players better, or else it feels too empty.

So a measure again that is only useful when the population is low. My main gripe with global ooc is it was a megaphone for the vomitorium that the server had become once the pop was distilled to its griefest. If you got a populated server, you dont need global ooc. You got Gfay.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, what killed the server was imbalance and Velious itself. There needs to be anti-zerg measures so we can have constant relatively fair competition, there needs to be some better PvP mechanics to make the actual combat more interesting, and we need to stay in Kunark so the playerbase isn't too split up and forced to spend time grinding awful PvE.

I dont have the solid numbers with me, but i was there since day 1 till late kunark and watched it all happen. For months and months after server launched people were bragging on the forums they enjoyed making people log off forever. This happened with no reaction from the staff whatsoever. The pop went from 600 to 200s fast. Then if i remember correctly, slowly decayed to late night single digit. It picked up after xp loss was removed, but the damage was done. That was the anti-zerg measure that was needed, but it came after everyone left. Sirken killed the Kunark pop. I was there the day xp nerf was patched at some red dawn group gathering and i remember several people saying they were quitting and i took the same decision. Velious is ok with a healthy pop. I remember on live another pvp hub was the entrance of thurgadin.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Those things would be good and should exist alongside yellow text.

One of the biggest flaws in your logic about yellow text being bad is you said it alerted more griefers to go attack the person being griefed. That's inaccurate, because if some twinked griefer killed an easy target, then the griefer who's there is already able to corpse camp the person, if they don't want to call LnS. Additional people going over there doesn't make it worse for that person who got killed, it makes it better, because the twinked alts can start fighting each other instead.

The point of griefers is they enjoy an easy fight, not pvp. Usually its a parked alt. They can just log off and wait for anyone else to get bored and leave. This is another reason why not picking the Rallos ruleset was a mistake. On rallos id organise peasant rebellions: 5-6 people ganging on a twink, who had to scoot or risk losing a piece of gear. I tried doing that when Holocaust had a priest dragging mobs to the entrance of Guk to prevent people from leveling in guk while they were in there. It was impossible to do because people understood intuitively that this can only lead to losing xp because youre fighting a zerg. This is why red needs a reset, with things like this discussed openly and in detail so you can have a launch that will attract numbers and keep them. Its very possible that chance has come and gone, but id be willing to try one last time. With a solid ruleset we could get lucky and get a streamer like warhammer reckoning got and get a stable healthy pop.

[Tradesonred]

Id add that any new server going with the rallos ruleset needs to add another important tweak or it will fail: Theres no illusion here, item loot is harsh. On rallos i almost quit (not as fast as i left sullon for Rallos though) till the 2001 halloween event happened where i picked up 5-6 pieces of no-drop loot. After that pvp was just a bundle of fun. I didnt care about dying, i wasnt so squishy and i could put some sort of fight up against twinks, especially cocky ones who engaged multiple players.

You need to add these custom pieces to a working item loot server. Either adding them to the loot tables of regular mobs (probably the easiest, less work intensive way to do it) or adding event mobs. This needs to be a permanent thing (unlike rallos, where it was a one weekend thing) to give people starting out on the server some hope of overcoming twinks or most people wont have the fortitude to do it. Something like worse versions of existing magical items, so wearing the drop shit happens mainly when you roll with a crew.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Tradesonred [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The height of the server was at launch, when it had 600 players or close to it.

Nah, that doesn't count, it's not actual players, just a bunch of lowbies making characters on the server to check it out. The population dropped to low 100's soon after launch.

Originally Posted by Tradesonred [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So a measure again that is only useful when the population is low. My main gripe with global ooc is it was a megaphone for the vomitorium that the server had become once the pop was distilled to its griefest. If you got a populated server, you dont need global ooc. You got Gfay.

The server has always had and will always have "low" population. Global ooc helps to maintain a healthy population of 300-500 though. What does Gfay have to do with it? I want to be able to talk and hear conversations in any zone. If people don't want to hear ooc they can just turn it off.

Originally Posted by Tradesonred [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

if i remember correctly, population slowly decayed to late night single digit. It picked up after xp loss was removed, but the damage was done. That was the anti-zerg measure that was needed, but it came after everyone left. Sirken killed the Kunark pop. I was there the day xp nerf was patched at some red dawn group gathering and i remember several people saying they were quitting and i took the same decision.

The Kunark population was good after they put in the exp bonus and LnS. That was 2014. Apparently you didn't play during that period?

Removing the xp loss from pvp is not an "anti-zerg" measure, lol. It definitely shouldn't have been on the server from the start though.

Originally Posted by Tradesonred [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The point of griefers is they enjoy an easy fight, not pvp. Usually its a parked alt.

Yellow text doesn't make that worse though. It clearly helps the situation because people can instantly see when the griefer character is doing it and respond if they want. If someone is "ashamed" they got killed and it's broadcast, then they likely are not someone who was ever going to stay on a PvP server anyway.

[Disease]

Originally Posted by JayDee [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I know a lot of vztz people remember the Rile event in everfrost. That was very well done and in corner of the map that is not in use anyways. Rewards were strong but not terribly OP for the era.

I just don't see as programmer willing to spend the hours to make such an event

Definitely going to need to wait out New World launch anyways. Everyone and their mammies gonna be playing.

Red hasn't been patched in almost 5 years, blue doesn't even get events on holidays and they continue to donate to the server. The red scum will never see a server or an event LOL.

[Tradesonred]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nah, that doesn't count, it's not actual players, just a bunch of lowbies making characters on the server to check it out. The population dropped to low 100's soon after launch.

It didnt. I remember clearly trying for months and months trying to stop the hemorragy by explaining xp loss was causing people to quit.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The server has always had and will always have "low" population. Global ooc helps to maintain a healthy population of 300-500 though. What does Gfay have to do with it? I want to be able to talk and hear conversations in any zone. If people don't want to hear ooc they can just turn it off.

So youre not an OG Rallos player, thats why youre asking what Gfay has to do with it. Gfay on live was lowbie pvp and trade central. You had a bunch of people at banker with bags full of stuff selling in trade chat. Everyone would port to gfay after a play session to sell or buy and chill. Newbs would sell stacks of batwings for a plat. It was a big hub for everything, something that didnt exist on red. Thats what Gfay has to do with it.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The Kunark population was good after they put in the exp bonus and LnS. That was 2014. Apparently you didn't play during that period?

Yes, thats the part where i said the server picked up. Then sirken either put the xp nerf in or did it for the devs, and half the pop quit and that was the final nail in the coffin of a healthy pop.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Removing the xp loss from pvp is not an "anti-zerg" measure, lol. It definitely shouldn't have been on the server from the start though.

Again you have a hard time grasping some basics. What was the reason Nihilum went unchallenged for like a year in Fear? Yes, because of xp loss and their numbers. What was the reason there was no pvp worth mentioning compared to Rallos? Because pvp = Going backwards in pve on red because youll often run into zerg groups like holocaust who will go out of their way to stomp you.

If i gotta explain it to you more than this.... i dont know what to say to you that will make you understand why xp loss was a mechanic that helped strenghten zergs.

[Krazy/sickpuppy]

Xp bonus implemented on red99 a 3rd raid guild with heartbrand as the leader started to emerge and actually win some targets .. shortly after they took the xp bonus away and slowed down the influx of new players from blue that were 70% all being funneled into the 3rd guild killing heartbrands guild and killing the server . I think this had a lot to do with certain guides being in nihilum. Pushing rules and changes in their favor to stop the competition

[Tunabros]

I miss the empire/ragnarok days

eq pvp was always cringe tho

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Tradesonred [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It didnt. I remember clearly trying for months and months trying to stop the hemorragy by explaining xp loss was causing people to quit.

Again, I went back and read the forum posts from not long after the server launched in 2012. Everyone said the server plummeted quickly and was only hitting 100's pop at most. Apparently epics were introduced a week after Red came out; that right there made a bunch of bored/curious Blue server players get off Red and go back to the other server.

XP loss is definitely an issue, but the server was never going to be the same size as Blue (unless it offered custom content that people loved). The population size was always going to be such that global occ and yellow text were going to be beneficial. Those things helped the server to maintain a healthy population during its actual peak of 2014-2015.

Originally Posted by Tradesonred [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Gfay on live was lowbie pvp and trade central. You had a bunch of people at banker with bags full of stuff selling in trade chat. Everyone would port to gfay after a play session to sell or buy and chill. Newbs would sell stacks of batwings for a plat. It was a big hub for everything, something that didnt exist on red.

What does that have to do with global occ and yellow text on this server? In classic there were lots of players in *many* zones. Many people to interact with. On a lower population server that is not the case. Hence, the need for global ooc. I remember when I started on this server before global ooc was introduced, there were barely any other people in my zones. I got a character to the teens and it mostly felt bad playing. I didn't return until 2014 and the server immediately felt much better at that point.

Actually, even in 2011 on Blue there were times it was too empty feeling when leveling up (and I'm sure for many other years too, especially in Velious era). I'd be highly in favor of ooc on Blue server working in such a way that zones are grouped into regions, so people across several zones can communicate, allowing empty or near-empty zones to not feel so completely desolate.

Originally Posted by Tradesonred [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes, thats the part where i said the server picked up. Then sirken either put the xp nerf in or did it for the devs, and half the pop quit and that was the final nail in the coffin of a healthy pop.

What exp nerf? Doesn't the same bonus still exist? It definitely seemed to be there in 2015. From what I saw, the server population was continuously healthy from 2014 and up through the first month of Velious, yes with some fluctuations, but a lot of those fluctuations being caused by banwaves, or people getting tired of imbalanced mechanics/guilds (which is what ultimately killed the server not long after Velious).

Originally Posted by Tradesonred [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again you have a hard time grasping some basics. What was the reason Nihilum went unchallenged for like a year in Fear? Yes, because of xp loss and their numbers. What was the reason there was no pvp worth mentioning compared to Rallos? Because pvp = Going backwards in pve on red because youll often run into zerg groups like holocaust who will go out of their way to stomp you.

You're the one who doesn't seem to understand basics. Zerg guilds form no matter what if allowed to, because that's the easiest thing to do. THAT is why those guilds went unchallenged, regardless of which era it was on this server. There was never an anti-zerg mechanism.

Not having XP loss on the server helped the population to rebuild, but it didn't create any kind of level playing field. In fact, because of the growing population of the server, that FED the zerg guild and allowed them to have insurmountable numbers to go smash through PvE content and generally not get challenged in any real way. The server had no xp loss and a healthy population of players, the former zerg guild had been disbanded and quite a few people from it banned (including the leader), there was an opposing guild with enough geared/experienced players to challenge a new one, and yet? The same end result of a zerg forming. XP loss at the start of Red server in 2012 is not the main reason for its eventual downfall, and global ooc + yellowtext especially aren't the reasons.

You keep talking about servers from 20+ years ago as if they are the holy grail and some perfect blueprint for how a server will be magical if P99 just coped it. That is not the case. The game is played SO much differently than it was back then. Red needs a big shakeup, it needs to have the most "un-classic" coding of all the P99 servers if it's going to be successful.