Why is training allowed on p99 in veeshan's peak? (poll asking your opinion)

[Tasslehofp99]

Originally Posted by Tasslehofp99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lets just consider the legitimate reasons for and against training being allowed in VP.

Legitimate reasons for allowing training: initially the pathing in VP was so bad that quite literally a guild pulling a dragon did not know what to expect in terms of mlb behavior and pathing. This created many scenarios where training happened often and many petitions were filed. The workload on the GMs would be immense, especially when you add in the fact that FTE disputes were common as well.

Those two concerns realistically can't be eliminated completely but surely the addition of fte shouts and improvements made to pathing recently should alleviate these issues for the most part, especially if intentional training was to be enforced.


Legitimate reasons against training in VP: its purely a griefing tactic used to waste players time and prolong competition over mobs until one guild gains an upper hand over the other simply by having more trainers available. This is not true competition.

The next reason would be that training was never allowed on live in any zone.
Its just not classic.

Yet another would be that less douschebaggery between guild (such as training) would lead to a more enjoyable raid scene for all.

Another reason would be that it would force raiding guilds to more strategically prioritize targets, which theoretically, would allow other guilds a higher chance at attempting raid bosses outside of VP.


Feel free to add reasons for or against sanctioned training in VP, as long as they are legitimate.


I chose to leave out poopsocking as a legitimate reason for allowing training because that isn't a legitimate reason to allow training. If a guild is willing to sit on a dragons spawn for an extended period of time then more power to them. I find it amusing that folks are arguing for a non classic rule to be enforced in order to prevent a classic stratedgy that was employed by many guilds on live. Im not saying i support poopsocking or enjoy it, but if guilds wanna do that then that is their choice. Assholes shouldn't be allowed to train them because their guild lacks the heart to do the same. That just amounts to being less competitiveness between guilds as well as the bad blood which is evident on this thread among others.

Originally Posted by Arteker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

tmo never had vp unconsted 2 years vp , we have to deal with ib vd bda fe trains all over to the point the mentality of train wars sticked deep and hard and alots of people got pissed angry and want to strike back .

as i said do it in game not forums , do it in game because no tmo will take forums serius unless its a gm official ruling.
p99 forums are full of shit on a level i havent seen in 13 eyars of everquest players since furor anger issues over paladins sks back in the day .

Hey art thanks for your input bud, as for your insistance to 'do it in game and not on the forum" not quite sure what you mean by that. As for official GM ruling, this thread was meant to open up the discussion about the possibility of that happening. Unfortunately I have tried to discuss a treaty in VP or some kind of friendly no training agreement but haven't gotten a respons from zeelot. So.unfortunately it comes down to what the gms think/feel about the topic. If training is decided to be allowed for good well that is unfortunate and will make a lot more players unhappy than outlawing training would make people happy.

[quido]

Originally Posted by Tasslehofp99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Stop rants and flaming my post pls jeremy.

I'm getting tired of hearing you say this when pointing out the blatant reality of your situation and motivation is considered inflammatory by you. I reserved my uncensored comments for other threads. I think the discussion merits pointing out that trying to change the rules was your second or third choice out of the possible courses of action.

[quido]

It was only when you failed at succeeding within the rules, after enormous effort, that you took it upon yourself to try and change the rule. This is relevant.

You then claimed that you were above lowering yourself to operating within the current rules, despite actively participating in the train wars in VP.

I think this effort is a cop-out. See my anesthesia comment in the other thread to see the non-server-chat version of what I have to say!

[Tasslehofp99]

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm getting tired of hearing you say this when pointing out the blatant reality of your situation and motivation is considered inflammatory by you. I reserved my uncensored comments for other threads. I think the discussion merits pointing out that trying to change the rules was your second or third choice out of the possible courses of action.

You should also note that prior to making this poll thread I created a thread on FE's forums entitled "vp treaty discussion" or something along those lines. Tiggles can confirm this since he spends so much time on our forums.

I also sent zeelot a pm in an attempt to open lines of communication between our guilds. I saw the direction this thread was going in and never received a reply from zeelot. You're attempts at derailing the.thread ultimately amount to rants over the fact that so many people seemingly disagree with the way things are inside of VP on p99.


I've tried the alternatives, because in my opinion (and many others) training is unacceptable in eq and really equates to nothing more than shitty newbs griefing people.

[quido]

You seemed Ok with it when you guys had a realistic chance at succeeding.

[Arteker]

Originally Posted by Tasslehofp99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hey art thanks for your input bud, as for your insistance to 'do it in game and not on the forum" not quite sure what you mean by that. As for official GM ruling, this thread was meant to open up the discussion about the possibility of that happening. Unfortunately I have tried to discuss a treaty in VP or some kind of friendly no training agreement but haven't gotten a respons from zeelot. So.unfortunately it comes down to what the gms think/feel about the topic. If training is decided to be allowed for good well that is unfortunate and will make a lot more players unhappy than outlawing training would make people happy.

i meean no one in tmo will take you seriusly if u try to do it usin forum and demagogie .

i bet even sirken rogean and other would rather be happier if instead to bring them more headaches u take steps straigh in game .

About we the devil if tomorrow ur name poped in tmo forum app im going to tell u one thing and im being honest lots of people would rage and be bitter and say no fuck this guy , other wave would say if he earn his spot he takes it .


the sad thing tass is not the fact other guilds cannot compete in vp rigth now train or no train because lets face it and be honest as u said tmo prety much domain on vp dragons is total and realy its not a challange unless we realy pull very slow numbers.

the sad thing this server has been stuck in for so much time locked in a age wich actualy didint developed the concept of raidin to a next level .


the very first expansion designed to have multiple locations wich allowed to like 2 guilds to take in higher scenarios and to provide other 3 or 4 minor ones with raid scenario for loot was velious.


but of course back in the day in live in kunark most casuals would be happy just to get a piece of fear hate and maybe to finish a sky quest in his whole career .

when kunark arrived before tmo was even top 3 in the guild chain most people would go to guild like vessica die based in the chances for alot of week planar raids in hate and fear.

sadly 3 years later of kunark that sense of omg i got me first planar loot is gone. we have a server wich abuse emchanics where not even tsted back in the day such aoe chardok or fear. and the fact if u event cannot get some loot by ur dkp or whatever system use a guild u can do it using farming and pps.


if tomorrow sirken roegan would say velious is inc in for xxx.xxx be ready, first thing u and other raiders should do is not complain in forums is seek tmo ib fe div whatever guild u think is viable to raid and develop some common rules .


u forgot in live GMs or guides couldnt not pop ever and in general most ignored alot of shit happening it was player base who actualy organized and set up every server life .


some server are in the memory of people with good feelings rotations wich worked, and other are filled with shit abuse trains and alot of abuse by higher guilds.

its up to raiders to do something in game but no by train or claim such rule dont work and cry to a gm but to figure a common ground with other players and always will be someone breaking or fucking it because there isnt such thing is perfect.

[Tasslehofp99]

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It was only when you failed at succeeding within the rules, after enormous effort, that you took it upon yourself to try and change the rule. This is relevant.

You then claimed that you were above lowering yourself to operating within the current rules, despite actively participating in the train wars in VP.

I think this effort is a cop-out. See my anesthesia comment in the other thread to see the non-server-chat version of what I have to say!

You're bringing up past events which have shaped my opinions that you call a cop out.

I fail to see how they are relevant in this thread, or how your opinion over the matter carries any more weight than myself or anyone else in this thread.


Keep your personal digs at me or my guild to yourself or in rants and flames, its pretty simple. That stuff has no place in this discussion.

[Tasslehofp99]

Originally Posted by Tasslehofp99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lets just consider the legitimate reasons for and against training being allowed in VP.

Legitimate reasons for allowing training: initially the pathing in VP was so bad that quite literally a guild pulling a dragon did not know what to expect in terms of mlb behavior and pathing. This created many scenarios where training happened often and many petitions were filed. The workload on the GMs would be immense, especially when you add in the fact that FTE disputes were common as well.

Those two concerns realistically can't be eliminated completely but surely the addition of fte shouts and improvements made to pathing recently should alleviate these issues for the most part, especially if intentional training was to be enforced.


Legitimate reasons against training in VP: its purely a griefing tactic used to waste players time and prolong competition over mobs until one guild gains an upper hand over the other simply by having more trainers available. This is not true competition.

The next reason would be that training was never allowed on live in any zone.
Its just not classic.

Yet another would be that less douschebaggery between guild (such as training) would lead to a more enjoyable raid scene for all.

Another reason would be that it would force raiding guilds to more strategically prioritize targets, which theoretically, would allow other guilds a higher chance at attempting raid bosses outside of VP.


Feel free to add reasons for or against sanctioned training in VP, as long as they are legitimate.


I chose to leave out poopsocking as a legitimate reason for allowing training because that isn't a legitimate reason to allow training. If a guild is willing to sit on a dragons spawn for an extended period of time then more power to them. I find it amusing that folks are arguing for a non classic rule to be enforced in order to prevent a classic stratedgy that was employed by many guilds on live. Im not saying i support poopsocking or enjoy it, but if guilds wanna do that then that is their choice. Assholes shouldn't be allowed to train them because their guild lacks the heart to do the same. That just amounts to being less competitiveness between guilds as well as the bad blood which is evident on this thread among others.

Bump, keeping relevant posts visible to folks who aren't willing to read through the thread. Although there has been some decent input given by a wide variety of players and if you really care about this topic I would suggest taking a look.

[Tasslehofp99]

So, no one can come up with legitimate reasons for training to be allowed in VP?


I mean so many folks seem to support it (about 110) yet not one legitimate reason for sanctioned training has been brought up aside from the one I mentioned in my above post.

It also Seems like there are way more people against sanctioned training and way more legitimate reasons for why it should be done away with.


Sup guys.

[Alorae]

Originally Posted by Arteker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i meean no one in tmo will take you seriusly if u try to do it usin forum and demagogie .

i bet even sirken rogean and other would rather be happier if instead to bring them more headaches u take steps straigh in game .

About we the devil if tomorrow ur name poped in tmo forum app im going to tell u one thing and im being honest lots of people would rage and be bitter and say no fuck this guy , other wave would say if he earn his spot he takes it .

the sad thing tass is not the fact other guilds cannot compete in vp rigth now train or no train because lets face it and be honest as u said tmo prety much domain on vp dragons is total and realy its not a challange unless we realy pull very slow numbers.

the sad thing this server has been stuck in for so much time locked in a age wich actualy didint developed the concept of raidin to a next level .

the very first expansion designed to have multiple locations wich allowed to like 2 guilds to take in higher scenarios and to provide other 3 or 4 minor ones with raid scenario for loot was velious.

but of course back in the day in live in kunark most casuals would be happy just to get a piece of fear hate and maybe to finish a sky quest in his whole career .

when kunark arrived before tmo was even top 3 in the guild chain most people would go to guild like vessica die based in the chances for alot of week planar raids in hate and fear.

sadly 3 years later of kunark that sense of omg i got me first planar loot is gone. we have a server wich abuse emchanics where not even tsted back in the day such aoe chardok or fear. and the fact if u event cannot get some loot by ur dkp or whatever system use a guild u can do it using farming and pps.

if tomorrow sirken roegan would say velious is inc in for xxx.xxx be ready, first thing u and other raiders should do is not complain in forums is seek tmo ib fe div whatever guild u think is viable to raid and develop some common rules .

u forgot in live GMs or guides couldnt not pop ever and in general most ignored alot of shit happening it was player base who actualy organized and set up every server life .

some server are in the memory of people with good feelings rotations wich worked, and other are filled with shit abuse trains and alot of abuse by higher guilds.

its up to raiders to do something in game but no by train or claim such rule dont work and cry to a gm but to figure a common ground with other players and always will be someone breaking or fucking it because there isnt such thing is perfect.

Jesus.