Raid Rules Alternative

[G13]

Originally Posted by Datante [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ektar, this was my major concern as well, and the primary problem with FFA regardless if all of the guilds are trying to abide by player-driven rules.

This is what people do not seem to understand

FFA would change nothing. Both guilds would just sit on the spawn waiting for him to pop. Camping would get worse. Not better.

Coding the mob to say "I was hit by so and so guild first" is not classic, and what does that really mean anyways? He randomly attacked someone? Nobody is going to accept mob rights under those conditions. Nobody.

People need to accept that the Everquest raid system is horribly flawed and find a compromise that is competitive, but fair.

Originally Posted by Stickyfingers [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why not just make everything pop at the same time once a week? Then DA would get one and IB would too, the rest of the raid mobs would be open too, as DA and IB would be occupied with their respective raid mob, so a guild like Divinity could try some harder mobs. If Divinity is unable to, DA or IB (or anyone) could go in later and get the unkilled raid mobs. This means DA and IB could still get a raid mob a week, if not 2 or even 3.

Any guild with half a brain would pick Vox. So everyone would be fighting over Vox.

[rioisk]

I used to be a little butthurt about the situation but in all reality I have better things to do then to camp 24 hours a day for gear in an emulated game from 10 years ago. I'll just wait until there is more raid content and all the current shit is outdated.

[gruumsh]

I lost 2 jobs due to camping CT for his drops! Epic!!

[nicemace]

FFA just makes more work for GMs, not less.

The only way FFA would work is if there was no GM involvement, which means training, KSing and everything goes. Then it would just be anarchy and shit. Hence why FFA does not work. I wouldnt even care about playing my main, i'd just play a trainer/raid killer all day.

Everything will just be 'i agro'd him first hes ours' , 'nuh uh we did' and a GM has to come waste their time. It would happen every single kill.


I think it should be rot with 1 hour engage timer. Some kind of organisation but still plenty of oppotunity to take other guilds spawns (see: midnight spawns of mobs n shit).

[bullet]

Cut respawn timers by 50%

Needz moar guild drama asap!

[Bumamgar]

Originally Posted by nicemace [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Everything will just be 'i agro'd him first hes ours' , 'nuh uh we did' and a GM has to come waste their time. It would happen every single kill.

Every single kill till a guild gets disbanded [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A simple three strikes rule solves this, imho. First to engage gets the spawn. If a GM gets called/involved, they check aggro logs. If they find that the guild who was first to aggro didn't get the kill, the following happens:

• 1st offense - Loot removed and awarded to the first to aggro guild, warning noted against the offending guild
• 2nd offense - Loot removed and awarded to the first to aggro guild, offending guild suspended for 10 days (so they miss the next spawn cycle)
• 3rd offense - Loot removed and awarded to the first to aggro guild, offending guild disbanded.

Pretty simple and cut and dry, easy to enforce. All it takes is for a guild or two to get disbanded and I suspect the rest will figure out a way to play nice [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just my thoughts on the subject...

[nicemace]

people cant know if they were the first tho. it looks like youre the first easy as.

too much gray area with too big punishment for said gray area.

and this is what im saying.... you wanna cut GM involvement not increase it.

[Uaellaen]

Originally Posted by Bumamgar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Every single kill till a guild gets disbanded [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A simple three strikes rule solves this, imho. First to engage gets the spawn. If a GM gets called/involved, they check aggro logs. If they find that the guild who was first to aggro didn't get the kill, the following happens:

• 1st offense - Loot removed and awarded to the first to aggro guild, warning noted against the offending guild
• 2nd offense - Loot removed and awarded to the first to aggro guild, offending guild suspended for 10 days (so they miss the next spawn cycle)
• 3rd offense - Loot removed and awarded to the first to aggro guild, offending guild disbanded.

Pretty simple and cut and dry, easy to enforce. All it takes is for a guild or two to get disbanded and I suspect the rest will figure out a way to play nice [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just my thoughts on the subject...

sounds good to me [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[logiktrip]

I remember very clearly having the two top guilds on Terris at the time being banished from Ssra for just the kind of infighting that happens with FFA. Neither guild could zone in for an amount of time (at the risk of disbandment) because we had a disagreement that resulted in two guilds attacking and killing the same NPC - and the GM's had to take time out of their day to deal with it. We (the two guilds) were at each others throats constantly - nitpicking rules like first year law students to find any loophole that we could.

What it ultimately came down to was wasted time for the staff. It was easier to use this as a deterrent than to try and implement rules for the server to live by...that is not their job. Had there been no petitions that day I am very positive that the result would have been much different.

The plus side of this penalty? Guilds behind us got their first shots at NPC's they had never seen before.

We need to work out a situation amongst ourselves as players as to what is acceptable behavior. The staff doesn't want to deal with it, and they shouldn't have to. Wrei posted either in this thread or a previous one on the same topic that both DA and IB have gone "full retard" and that is a very hard sentiment to argue with -- the current state of the raid game is stupid and there are very few who would argue with that.

Whatever solution that is eventually worked out needs to be player mandated and open to enough interpretation that it doesn't exclude PUG raids or up and coming raiding guilds. I think everyone agrees that the current situation simply cannot continue if we want to have a healthy atmosphere leading up to one of the best raid expansions ever created (Velious).

Also without fail, whatever ruleset is decided upon, there will be abuse of some mechanic - but public perception is a powerful thing. We have a community that is still small enough that it should be able to self regulate. It must scale, and it must be agreed upon by the population of the server as fair. I honestly feel bad for guilds that I know have the capability to down some of these bosses but will literally never have a chance due to what amounts to greed and a giant ball of hate that a few guilds have for one another.

I never played on Stormhammer, but I seem to remember a "Tier" system being used with guilds there. Can someone shed some light on how that worked, as well as both sides of the issue?

I look forward to the raiding in Velious, however with the current raiding rule set this "Golden Age" will never come to pass.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Originally Posted by Aadill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That is definitely a viable solution. Sometimes agro is random, though. You'd really have to hope to be in range to attack, taunt, or shoot a bow to ensure first agro otherwise you'll be super mad when some afk dude happens to grab agro first. Other than that it would at least add the argument of "we aggroed first so step down till we win or lose." I assume a zonewide shout would be the easiest way to also catch it in logs if anyone chose to take an issue to a GM.

We did this on progression. First tag got kill rights. We ended up with 12 bards playing the aoe dot song on 1/3rd second intervals til Trakanon spawned.

By the way--is Sky out yet? Kunark on the horizon? I'm kind of on a break [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Doing some evil WoW arenas :P