Raid rules suggestion

[Alawen Everywhere]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No you didn't. Feel free to point out the error in the following, though:

False dichotomy.

[YendorLootmonkey]

No, intelligently address the questions I asked instead of just tossing out a link. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Unless you can't...

Or, to spell it out for you, if you think there are more than two options than the ones I presented as possible solutions, what did you have in mind? Without just blurting out "FALSE DICHOTOMY!!!!!!! HURRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!" and concluding that you've sufficiently made your case.

[FrogKing]

Never happen but this what I'd do: have raid-designated mobs apply a tag to all those that registered a successful melee hit or spell cast at the death of said raid mob. Then disallow any such tagged player from hitting or landing a spell on any other raid-designated for some duration of time. Pick your target but can't have them all. Its a lame solution but people completely incapable of sharing and that will go out their way to prevent others from experiencing content is pretty lame too.

[Irregardless]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No you didn't. Feel free to point out the error in the following, though:

1) The crux of the issue is there is not enough raid content to go around for those capable of raiding it.

2) Therefore, this implies the fix is either:

a) Generate enough raid content to go around, or
b) Ration the existing raid content in a fair and even manner.

If you think (1) is false, I'm not sure why all these threads are appearing regarding all the raid content disputes and I guess the discussion stops here, doesn't it? Therefore, I think we can agree (1) is true.

Therefore, if (1) is true, then the solution is for there to be enough raid content to go around for those capable of raiding it. (2) contains the two means by which to do so... a) generate more content, or b) take the existing content and distribute it evenly. Can you think of more options to create enough raid content to go around? I can't. Be my guest. I guess there's option c) reduce the population of the server, but I figured that'd be off the table. :P

I'm not sure we know the truth conditions for what you call "(1)." First of all, (1) assumes that there is a problem based on the fact that threads have appeared about it, in which case many things can be considered problems, such as 'two-boxing,' whether Kunark will be out, the best duo, etc. Sure, people will post about things and complain, but whether they are problems, or 'issues,' that warrant a solution is left for debate in the first place, which is what this thread is about, partly. Second, what qualifies as "enough raid content to go around for those capable of raiding it"? One boss per guild per week? One boss per 15-players in zone per day? This is murky, and I doubt very much we will ever reach a conclusion everyone will agree to, especially not in classic EQ, thus there will usually be threads about it. So (1), which you need to prove true in order to make the solutions in (2) be viable, is not as straight-forwardly true as you may think.

In (2) you state your first version of (a), which was entirely within your premise (1), which doesn't make it logically false (A implies A, after all) but it makes it a very poor argument. Regardless, you post a second (a) which suggests to generate more content, which I take it is meant to get us closer to fulfilling the supposedly promised "enough raid content" for everyone, which not only gets us further away from classic EQ, but also makes it another issue to determine what is "enough." You also post (b) which may not even be a solution to your own stated problem in (1) because even if the bosses are distributed in a "fair and even manner" (whatever that means, which is another issue in itself) there is no guarantee there will be "enough raid content to go around for those capable of raiding it." There never will be enough classic EQ content for everyone.

Also, (a) and (b) might not be the only solutions to (1), thus why this is being labelled as a false dilemma or dichotomy. (c) could be but is not limited to: (c1) have everyone learn to deal with it, (c2) have everyone learn to deal with until someone suggests an solution better than (a) and (b), (c3) any other possible solution is worse than the original problem so let's leave it as it is.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Fair enough, maybe I was simplifying the options way too much. But clearly there is a problem with the current distribution of limited raid content. To deny otherwise is like denying there is currently a problem with the U.S. economy. It's right there in our face, and it is impacting a lot of players and guilds on this server. It is an emotional topic, and as the server population grows, things are only going to get worse. You know this, and I know this. People will make stay or go decisions based on the amount of drama/grief they're willing to take, or how long they're able to enjoy the game while being deprived of end-game content.

On the other hand, I understand some people love the drama/grief. Since that is what's most fun about the game for them, maybe someone can make an emu server where there's only one mob and they can all fight over it 24/7. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Right now, from my understanding, the options are:

a) Free-for-all/Might makes right - One or two guilds bullying all the others
b) First-with-force - my understanding this is currently the case, so this includes the "have everyone learn to deal with it" options. Some of the interpretations of these rules probably need to be fine-tuned.
c) Increase raid spawn frequency - non-classic, changes rate at which items enter the world
d) Adjust raid spawn variance - someone keeps suggesting this, thoughts?
e) Reduce the server population - not an option
f) Raid Calendar - top tier guilds get less than they have, may not agree to this

Some other issues surrounding any of these options are 1) fairness and consistency of policy enforcement, 2) amount of GM intervention required.

Any others anyone can think of?

[mitic]

g) make fear, hate, sky, solb, pf, kedge + ecommons (for funs sake) pvp enabled

win win for everyone

[Finawin]

If you want to play fail pvp there is a place for it.

A pve server is not that place.

Deciding who gets pve targets based on who can zerg pvp harder makes no fucking sense.

[rioisk]

The only solution is FFA. Might makes right. Otherwise we're whining brats cause we didn't get our share of the pie.

I know guilds in many MMORPGs that have designated "watchers" checking spawns constantly. Every member of guild/raid is on call 24 hour a day and thus the watcher calls each raiders cell phone to inform them that a raid target is up. They must wake up/drop what they're doing and report for the raid within a certain amount of time else they're dropped from guild.

Anybody ever do Avatars in EQ2? Plenty of guilds who employed this system of on call 24 hours a day.

If a guild is this organized/dedicated that they can identify up raid targets and get their raid force there and dish out the most DPS then they should win the loot. No contest. Anybody who suggests otherwise is upset they aren't as dedicated but still want badass loot.



Just remember everybody. Having badass raid loot pretty much means you're an EQ addict.

[Omnimorph]

Originally Posted by mitic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

g) make fear, hate, sky, solb, pf, kedge + ecommons (for funs sake) pvp enabled

win win for everyone

That just means training and screwing people over will take precedence to killing them [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Why have your wizard nuke someone when you can have your monk train 30 mobs on them [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] easier kills.

Increases frequency of raid mobs just means you'd have more opportunites for their to be disputes. Without the option of having constantly spawning raid mobs, top guilds will always want to dominate everything.

A solution would be to get all the guilds who want to raid a mob, each elect a raid leader, and submit a group to a raid [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] then have a collaborate raid with a group (or 2) from each guild!!! It'd be beautiful, everyone getting along nicely working together to bring down a common foe.

you know it's the answer!

[Grento]

Each guild should have to choose a gladiator to represent them. If there is a dispute, there should be a duel to settle it. Same weapons and armor also, just so the gear card can't be pulled.