Pet weapon questions

[kjs86z2]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is no evidence to suggest a skilled Enchanter cannot get the same kills per hour with RoST compared to GGR. He is just saying "trust me bro" over and over, with some insults and Argument from Authority fallacy sprinkled in. One day he may learn that when he makes a positive claim, he actually needs to back it up with evidence.

.

You don't need evidence.

Anyone that has solo leveled an enchanter would always, always take a GGR if available.

DSM we all know you're a mediocre at best torpor shaman and standard wall-licker raider. Just stop.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by kjs86z2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You don't need evidence.

Anyone that has solo leveled an enchanter would always, always take a GGR if available.

DSM we all know you're a mediocre at best torpor shaman and standard wall-licker raider. Just stop.

A forum troll who was banned on his original account Toxigen is not someone to take advice from. Sorry you don't got your forum account due to bad behavior.

Please stop posting nonsense.

If you are as experienced as you claim, providing evidence should be trivial.

[kjs86z2]

lol

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

RoST has better benefits for a normal player, and there is no evidence GGR gives more kills per hour.

Ok, sounds like I read you correctly as saying GGR provides no benefits over an instant clicky.

RoST and postnerf CoS have a 2 second cast, and iirc mobs have 30 delay, or 3 seconds between combat rounds. Since earlier you criticized a reverse-charming scenario with GGR by saying "This means you only have 1 second to react before your pet dies", I assume you agree that you should expect one combat round to happen if you're casting a 2-second invis to break charm?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok, sounds like I read you correctly as saying GGR provides no benefits over an instant clicky.

RoST and postnerf CoS have a 2 second cast, and iirc mobs have 30 delay, or 3 seconds between combat rounds. Since earlier you criticized a reverse-charming scenario with GGR by saying "This means you only have 1 second to react before your pet dies", I assume you agree that you should expect one combat round to happen if you're casting a 2-second invis to break charm?

Post-nerf CoS has a 5 second cast. RoST has a 2 second cast.

I am not going to play your silly troll game of stringing out posts out via questions that could be answered by reading what I've said in the thread already. It is a waste of time. Just to he clear, the post you are referring to was talking about avarage DPS, not combat rounds.

If you have evidence and/or logical reasoning for why you think GGR is better, please post it all, and we can go through it together.

[bcbrown]

Ok, since you earlier said "2 second anticipation in a high level fight is easy" it sounds like you agree that one should expect one combat round to happen when using RoST.

I just want to make sure we're on the same page regarding the comparison before I get into the math. This is all in the context of 1v1 charm killing for xp when you plan to get both mobs low, break charm, then kill them both. You're going to have some target hp % on the lower-health of the two mobs when you want charm to break, and that's going to be just above the max one-round damage it can take, right?

So for example, if you see over the course of the fight that the max damage in one round is 5%, using a GGR you'll click it as soon as the lower-health mob hits 6%. And if you have a RoST and are "anticipating 2 seconds", you'll click it as soon as the lower-health mob hits 11%, so that even if a max round happens while it's casting, it'll still be at 6%.

If you agree with the context of that scenario then I can get into the reasoning. If you don't agree then let's get that settled first.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok, since you earlier said "2 second anticipation in a high level fight is easy" it sounds like you agree that one should expect one combat round to happen when using RoST.

I just want to make sure we're on the same page regarding the comparison before I get into the math. This is all in the context of 1v1 charm killing for xp when you plan to get both mobs low, break charm, then kill them both. You're going to have some target hp % on the lower-health of the two mobs when you want charm to break, and that's going to be just above the max one-round damage it can take, right?

So for example, if you see over the course of the fight that the max damage in one round is 5%, using a GGR you'll click it as soon as the lower-health mob hits 6%. And if you have a RoST and are "anticipating 2 seconds", you'll click it as soon as the lower-health mob hits 11%, so that even if a max round happens while it's casting, it'll still be at 6%.

If you agree with the context of that scenario then I can get into the reasoning. If you don't agree then let's get that settled first.

I am not going to play your game. Post your evidence/math/logic, or admit defeat. You don't need my permission to post your thoughts.

[bcbrown]

So in this scenario we're assuming max damage is 5%, one combat round happens while casting RoST, no combat round happens while casting GGR, and that the GGR user will cast as soon as the lower-health mob hits 6% and the RoST user will cast as soon as the lower-health mob hits 11%.

In this scenario the GGR user will always have the lower-health mob be under 5%. For the RoST user, looking at my data while charming gators in cazic thule, there was a 57% hit rate: 8029 occurances of "An alligator bites an alligator", and 5877 occurances of "An alligator tries to bite an alligator".

So 43% of the time that combat round that occurs while casting RoST will be a miss, and therefore 43% of the time the RoST user will end up having to kill a mob with 11% hp left, while the GGR user never has to face a mob with more than 6%.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So in this scenario we're assuming max damage is 5%, one combat round happens while casting RoST, no combat round happens while casting GGR, and that the GGR user will cast as soon as the lower-health mob hits 6% and the RoST user will cast as soon as the lower-health mob hits 11%.

In this scenario the GGR user will always have the lower-health mob be under 5%. For the RoST user, looking at my data while charming gators in cazic thule, there was a 57% hit rate: 8029 occurances of "An alligator bites an alligator", and 5877 occurances of "An alligator tries to bite an alligator".

So 43% of the time that combat round that occurs while casting RoST will be a miss, and therefore 43% of the time the RoST user will end up having to kill a mob with 11% hp left, while the GGR user never has to face a mob with more than 6%.

In this scenario:

1. Combat round 3 (kills gator) - 4 seconds
2. Combat round 2 (6% HP) - 2 seconds
3. Combat round 1 (11% HP) - 0 seconds

You can just do this with RoST:

1. Combat round 3 (kills gator) - 4 seconds
2. End RoST cast - 3 seconds
3. Combat round 2 (6% HP) - 2 seconds
4. Start RoST cast - 1 second
5. Combat round 1 (11% HP) - 0 seconds

If line 3 (combat round 2) with RoST is a miss, you duck RoST cast and then start over, as the gator is still at 11%.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If step 3 with RoST is a miss, you duck RoST cast and then start over, as the gator is still at 11%.

Attached is a chart of the last 1000 gator v gator hits I logged while leveling in gator alley. I think there's variation of three or four levels, so it's not a clean 20 damage intervals, but the pattern is clear. There's a spike at max or near-max hits but still plenty of small hits. There's a 33% cumulative chance of a hit of less than 30, a 50% cumulative chance of a hit of less than 44, and a max hit of 62.

So even if you duck off all the misses, there's still a 50% chance of a hit of less than 3% health, leaving you with a mob above 8%, while the GGR user never has the lower-health mob above 6%.