Iksar Shaman - Solo Challenges?

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is also factually true that FSI is the best racial bonus for Torpor Shamans.

As far as I can tell your "proof" is an opinion.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Take these two statements: "FSI is provably better than Troll/Iksar Regen when a Shaman has Torpor", and "ToV Weapons are provably better than Rusty Weapons". I am not sure why the former gets so much pushback, and the latter does not. Both are proven via math and data, and are quite easy to prove.

Please show me the proof. And yes, I've read your guide. I saw a lot of opinions, a couple calculations, but no proof.

Until I see a proper formal proof, I'm gonna side with this guy:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It just depends what you prefer.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As far as I can tell your "proof" is an opinion.

Please show me the proof. And yes, I've read your guide. I saw a lot of opinions, a couple calculations, but no proof.

What is your definition of proof? It clearly isn't the normal definition.

I have provided math using the actual formulas and values from the game. You can double check these formulas and values both on the wiki and in the game. You can double check the math as well.

I have provided video evidence with logs showing how the game works, as well as various fights. You can reproduce these videos yourself to double check my methods.

You have provided nothing to counter any of my points. The only person who is simply posting their opinion is yourself. A completely unfounded opinion.

If you believe I am wrong, please post something to counter my points. Your opinion that all of my evidence is an opinion has no merit as it currently stands.

I suggest you read my guide again, and watch my youtube videos.

[fortior]

I don't know about that, because I don't see any proof on the wiki. The current leaderboards conclusively show barbarian > troll > everything else. There are likely some variables you're missing in your calculations, because your results do not correspond with reality (i.e. the real leaderboards).

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by fortior [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't know about that, because I don't see any proof on the wiki. The current leaderboards conclusively show barbarian > troll > everything else. There are likely some variables you're missing in your calculations, because your results do not correspond with reality (i.e. the real leaderboards).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Rzw3wLWEsM - Tranix

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umuVBewCNgY - Cliff Golem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPxeOVuX0G8 - Ionat

This is real evidence. You are clearly trolling at this point by presuming what is currently on the wiki is the only proof that matters. There's no real reason for anybody to believe you are being sincere, nor do you have any evidence to back up your claims about which racial bonuses are the best.

[fortior]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Rzw3wLWEsM - Tranix

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umuVBewCNgY - Cliff Golem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPxeOVuX0G8 - Ionat

This is real evidence. You are clearly trolling at this point by presuming what is currently on the wiki is the only proof that matters. There's no real reason for anybody to believe you are being sincere, nor do you have any evidence to back up your claims about which racial bonuses are the best.

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Counts as duo master

The other 2 look legit though. Congrats! Not sure your videos are completely usable since most people submitting them do things like showing which buffs they have, but I'm not such a hardass. Once you have submitted yours, I think you're on your way to proving ogres are just as good as trolls and potentially even barbarians. However, it does say 'any 5', so you have a few more kills to go [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by fortior [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Counts as duo master

I did the whole Tranix Fight solo. I didn't ask them to help, nor did they help in any relevant way. There is nothing in the video showing I would have lost without them. They just showed up to watch, because they were planning on killing Tranix if I didn't win the fight.

Originally Posted by fortior [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

However, it does say 'any 5', so you have a few more kills to go [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've done at least 6 on the Solo Grandmaster list, I just don't have videos for them all. Nor do I care enough to make videos. Honestly some of them are strange picks anyway. I've killed Warlord Skarlon for example, and he is easier than Tranix in my estimation.

I simply disproved your idea that Barbarians > Trolls > Ogre/Iksar via using the solo challenge hall of fame as "proof". You are back to square one, because you can no longer use the solo challenge hall of fame as evidence.

But I am confident that you already know that racial bonuses have nothing to do with player skill. This is a pretty obvious troll.

[fortior]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I did the whole Tranix Fight solo. I didn't ask them to help, nor did they help in any relevant way. There is nothing in the video showing I would have lost without them.

Hmm I'm not sure about that. We would need the video of their viewpoint for this to hold up to scrutiny I think. The hall of fame is very serious! Until you provide proof I don't think we can just let this pass, so you'd be at 2 points, which still places ogres higher than iksars for example, but barbarians still show a better real-world performance.

[bcbrown]

Jesus Christ. Here's a proof that there is no highest prime number, or equivalently that the the sequence of prime numbers is unbounded. Note, this is a proof by contradiction.

Assume that there is a highest prime number, P_max. Thus the sequence of primes runs P_0, P_1, P_2 ... P_max. Compute the number sum(P_0, P_1, P_2 ... P_max) + 1. This number is not divisible by any number in the sequence of primes and is larger than P_max. This contradicts the assumption there is a highest prime number. QED.

I ask again, what is your definition, and what is your proof? You said it was easily provable.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Jesus Christ. Here's a proof that there is no highest prime number, or equivalently that the the sequence of prime numbers is unbounded. Note, this is a proof by contradiction.

Assume that there is a highest prime number, P_max. Thus the sequence of primes runs P_0, P_1, P_2 ... P_max. Compute the number sum(P_0, P_1, P_2 ... P_max) + 1. This number is not divisible by any number in the sequence of primes, is not divisible by any of them, and is larger than P_max. This contradicts the assumption there is a highest prime number. QED.

I ask again, what is your definition, and what is your proof? You said it was easily provable.

Did you not read my guide? I provided the math in it quite clearly. If you are simply going to quibble over the specifics in how I wrote out the math, then you have already lost the argument.

I'll ask again: What part(s) of my arguments do you feel are incorrect?

[bcbrown]

I think your argument supporting your opinion is fairly convincing. It is not a proof.

As you are unwilling to provide a proof, allow me to attempt to summarize your argument:

Trolls/Iksars get +8 standing Regen over other races. 8 x 10 x 60 = 4800 HP per hour. That's the equivalent of 3-4 Torpors per hour. 3-4 Torpors per hour is not really significant on a Torpor Shaman. FSI increases your chance of survival before the initial slow on any difficult fight, which can actually be the difference between success and failure. Increasing your survivability during the first minute of a fight (before a mob is slowed) will be better than a small boost to your Mana/HP regeneration on a class that can already fully recover in 3 minutes or less.

Your argument is that the increased survivability of no stuns before a slow during a solo fight is a subjectively better than the (quantifiable) benefit of 4800 HP/hour.

Show me the proof or stop claiming it's provable.