Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The OP is asking what the best 4 person caster group is. The reason you don't see 3x enc groups at x y or z camp is cause as you said it's not easy to field 3-4 encs for a single group. You're arguing a totally different point. 3 encs and a clr could EASILY do fungi camp and do it better than whatever group your shaman is in. I legit laughed when you tried to say how good your dps was from your epic click rofl. Epic is great for soloing. If the mobs are living long enough for the dps from your long ass cast time epic click is relevant you're already in a group WAY less powerful than one with 3 charm pets.

Please show evidence for this[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I want to see your 3x Enchanter group doing Fungi King. When I say "easy to field", I mean that the camp you are fighting at would work with 3x Enchanters.

You missed the whole point of my Epic click example. My point is that you can inflate your DPS numbers easily when fighting lower level Mobs. Troxx is obviously parsing easier mobs, he isn't doing raid parsing. So We need the data he is using to see what he is parsing. Otherwise I could easily say "Shamans can do 160 DPS", and I would be factually correct. I could inflate those numbers higher too if I was root rotting more mobs, which I could.

I think you also don't realize that not every zone has good Charmable mobs. A 4x Enchanter group doesn't work where the mobs aren't Charmable, or the only ones available are low level. West Wastes is a good example of this. All of the Charmable mobs are pretty low compared to the stuff you want to kill.

[Jibartik]

we need a p99 olympics

[ezigrelnos]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

we need a p99 olympics

people out here arguing specific camps instead of overall average power best of the best

sure, you have some tricks for xyz, but 4 enchanter can handle anything you throw that any other comp can with more ease

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by ezigrelnos [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

people out here arguing specific camps instead of overall average power best of the best

sure, you have some tricks for xyz, but 4 enchanter can handle anything you throw that any other comp can with more ease

The reality is it matters on the level range and what camps you are doing. OP didn't specify either. 4x Enchanters would be great in Mistmoore, for example. But unless you only play the game to play mid-level dungeons, the "overall average power" needs to take into account higher level camps too.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To Troxx, here is a simple example to show how easy it is to get higher DPS on lower level mobs, which is why you need to show your parses.

If I Epic DoT 5 mobs, I am doing 80 DPS, just with a free clickie. This doesn't include any other DoTs. I would double my DPS if I single DoTed those mobs to 160 DPS.

You continue to miss the point … which was that parading around a red con ToV raid boss parse where rogues not breaking 100dps has nothing to do with whether a mage can put out much larger numbers on group xp trash content. But please, continue to lecture the community about the performance of classes you haven’t played up to 60.

No need to derail this thread further. In a theoretical “best” setup of 4 casters in xp group content the answer is:

Cleric, ench, ench, __other__

-That other isn’t a 2nd cleric, a druid or a wizard by a long shot.
-Shaman is a better option than the above but redundant dead weight compared to a mage, a necro, or hell even a 3rd enchanter.

If you exclude a 3rd enchanter my vote would be a mage for most mundane content for fastest kill rate. If there are undead to charm or the camp would benefit from FD pulling or the expanded support tool kit of the necromancer … then necro it is.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You continue to miss the point … which was that parading around a red con ToV raid boss parse where rogues not breaking 100dps has nothing to do with whether a mage can put out much larger numbers on group xp trash content. But please, continue to lecture the community about the performance of classes you haven’t played up to 60.

No need to derail this thread further. In a theoretical “best” setup of 4 casters in xp group content the answer is:

Cleric, ench, ench, __other__

-That other isn’t a 2nd cleric, a druid or a wizard by a long shot.
-Shaman is a better option than the above but redundant dead weight compared to a mage, a necro, or hell even a 3rd enchanter.

If you exclude a 3rd enchanter my vote would be a mage for most mundane content for fastest kill rate. If there are undead to charm or the camp would benefit from FD pulling or the expanded support tool kit of the necromancer … then necro it is.

I didn't parade around a ToV boss with my Epic DoT example hehe.

My Shaman can do 170 DPS with Epic DoT and 1 casted DoT each if I am root rotting 5 mobs. This doesn't even include my Pet with Haste. The Math is simple: Epic DoT lasts 90 seconds and does 1425 damage. Bane of Nife lasts 42 seconds and deals 1648 damage. (1648 + 1425) / 90 = ~34 DPS per mob. Multiply that by 5 and you have 170 DPS.

Please show your parsing data to show how you are getting your DPS numbers on Mage. I am not sure why you think you have some obvious data everybody knows about.

There is no evidence so far to show a Mage is significantly better than a Shaman at level 60.

I am asking you for the DPS data because you have a level 60 Mage. Math is math lol, it doesn't need to come from my own character.

[Troxx]

At filling a strictly dps role in a group, mage is absolutely better at dishing out than shaman.

I know.
I have both.
At level 60.
Within full spell books.

Solo? In a small duo/trio with high hp mobs with wicked regen (Kael arena comes to mind). All is these things change the balance given the mechanics of shaman mana self-replenishment and the damage impact potential of more efficient dots if the mobs live long enough.

But again … apples to raw fish comparison. We’re talking a high dps fast paced group where dots won’t have time to do their things.

Mages are a raw dps class. Shamans are not. Shamans are undeniably more effective in most every area of this game but if all you want/need is another person to get things dead faster, the shaman isn’t going to fill that ticket as well as a lot of other classes.

Shamans got some meh nukes, some very powerful dots that won’t have time to reach their potential, and a crappy ass double attacking pet (from a dps perspective … it can tank just fine).

As for parses: I’m at work. Laptop is at home and I haven’t dusted off the mage since Covid hit in early 2020 and since then mage pets got tuned down.

I’ll get you some parses sometime this weekend if I don’t end up sitting lfg for 12 hours.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

At filling a strictly dps role in a group, mage is absolutely better at dishing out than shaman.

I know.
I have both.
At level 60.
Within full spell books.

Solo? In a small duo/trio with high hp mobs with wicked regen (Kael arena comes to mind). All is these things change the balance given the mechanics of shaman mana self-replenishment and the damage impact potential of more efficient dots if the mobs live long enough.

But again … apples to raw fish comparison. We’re talking a high dps fast paced group where dots won’t have time to do their things.

Mages are a raw dps class. Shamans are not. Shamans are undeniably more effective in most every area of this game but if all you want/need is another person to get things dead faster, the shaman isn’t going to fill that ticket as well as a lot of other classes.

Shamans got some meh nukes, some very powerful dots that won’t have time to reach their potential, and a crappy ass double attacking pet (from a dps perspective … it can tank just fine).

As for parses: I’m at work. Laptop is at home and I haven’t dusted off the mage since Covid hit in early 2020 and since then mage pets got tuned down.

I’ll get you some parses sometime this weekend if I don’t end up sitting lfg for 12 hours.

I appreciate it! I would love to see the data, I am intrigued.

[Troxx]

Am honestly excited to show it to you. As I have said in other threads I real-time parse every group I’m in with active heads up display. The only thing I can’t parse are anyones dots (these days including self), DS on other people and other people’s nukes.

I think the biggest thing you’re underestimating is the dps of the pet. It’s basically an extra well geared melee (well geared meaning high end group stuff and epics). Without the pet mages are just like a slightly less powerful wizard with a better DS.

A few well placed nukes is enough to slingshot to the top on your standard xp mobs (not a lot of hp) and unless the group is literally chain pulling all that time between pulls fills your bank with more potential damage to unload on the next.

[sajbert]

It's pretty blatant that popular answer is gonna be clr ench ench X

You could argue for another enchanter

or necro (fd pulls, undead charm pet, fueling cleric with mana)

or mage (utility and burst)

or druid (harmony, ports and regen and beast charm pet)


It's gonna depend on how you define best or where you're hunting. Fastest XP, most difficult encounters, safest or least stressful?