System rotation target ?

[Lelroni]

Originally Posted by Nedala [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are you fucking kidding me? We had poopsocking ON THIS SERVER; even when the variance was in, when we had the "first 15 people in zone rule" are you actually believing there wouldnt be massive poopsocking with a variance on this server? This is not live, there are way more raiding guilds. We had poopsocking with variance it would be awful without one. The rules like we have right now are good. And if classic raid experience actually means you have to camp a raid target for hours (days) to get a chance to kill them, then im happy we dont have classic raiding experience here.

The problem with the 15 people rule, and whatever the fuck else was being used back in pre-kunark days was there were too many guilds and not enough mobs.

How many raid targets were there before kunark?

Inny, CT, Naggy, Vox, some sky bosses, so around 5-8 raid targets?

Now with Kunark, we have Gore, Sev, Trak, Talendor, VS, Fayd, almost double the raid targets, are guilds that greedy that they want to have everything?

Take out the variance, I'm sure the big guilds won't be able to poopsock everything, you'll have to share [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.].

[Splorf22]

You know I have a cousin who is a doctor. He actually ended up moving practices because in his old location he had doctors in the office who wouldn't do their share of call. Apparently this is a huge problem in the medical world, because no one wants to be on call. It's pretty obvious that no one likes to be available 24/7.

I don't understand how Shiftin makes it to 50% of TR's raids while living a normal life. Let's assume he is a standard wage slave who sleeps 8 hours a day and spends 10 hours per day at work (counting lunch/commuting) five days a week. That's already 106 out of 168 hours, leaving a mere 37% of time available for potential raids even if he is willing to stop taking showers, having dinner with his kids, or any other activity when a raid is called.

So while the current system may be meritocratic, if you want to even smell a raid target on Project 1999 you basically have to commit leaving whatever you are doing at any time, and join a huge guild so that they will have enough available people at any given time to take down a raid. In my humble opinion, this sucks.

I much prefer Susanbanthony/Skope's suggestion of just popping all the raid targets at once, but with no variance, about once a week (I suggest every 6 days 18 hours to rotate through all timezones) and temporarily suspending all rules in the raid zones for about two hours.

I think there are a number of huge advantages:

1. Raid night immediately becomes a huge event for the 50+ crowd. The server population would be 1200+ easily. With all targets up the uberguilds would make sure 100% of their population was on.
2. Casual players actually have a chance to either make time in their schedule or just skip the event. Smaller guilds can ally for targets.
3. With training and ks'ing OK for the event, the challenge and excitement level would go way up. You can't just clear a few roamers on the way to Cazic Thule any more, you have to burn down the zone or risk some other guild dropping it on you. Raid night would probably last 5-6 hours before all the mobs were down because of this.
4. Alternatively, players could just play nice and divide up the targets reasonably (kinda boring IMO).
5. This is easy to try. Just schedule it once and see what happens.

[Susanbanthony]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I much prefer Susanbanthony/Skope's suggestion of just popping all the raid targets at once, but with no variance, about once a week (I suggest every 6 days 18 hours to rotate through all timezones) and temporarily suspending all rules in the raid zones for about two hours.

I think there are a number of huge advantages:

1. Raid night immediately becomes a huge event for the 50+ crowd. The server population would be 1200+ easily. With all targets up the uberguilds would make sure 100% of their population was on.
2. Casual players actually have a chance to either make time in their schedule or just skip the event. Smaller guilds can ally for targets.
3. With training and ks'ing OK for the event, the challenge and excitement level would go way up. You can't just clear a few roamers on the way to Cazic Thule any more, you have to burn down the zone or risk some other guild dropping it on you. Raid night would probably last 5-6 hours before all the mobs were down because of this.
4. Alternatively, players could just play nice and divide up the targets reasonably (kinda boring IMO).
5. This is easy to try. Just schedule it once and see what happens.

I like this idea just as a p99 social experiment to see how guild leaders handle things... option 3 or option 4.

[Susanbanthony]

Keep the variance, just make it a full repop every time. Everything dies in a couple hours on full repops anyways, so the 7 day spawns with a +/- 2 day variance all end up in the same window anyway.

Just make the full repop a variance with +/- 1 or 2 days... there's still the unknown but it also forces guilds to prioritize and gives other guilds a shot at raid targets that aren't highly prioritized by the upper tier guilds while also having the element of needing to race to targets.

[Aadill]

Originally Posted by Susanbanthony [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Keep the variance, just make it a full repop every time. Everything dies in a couple hours on full repops anyways, so the 7 day spawns with a +/- 2 day variance all end up in the same window anyway.

Just make the full repop a variance with +/- 1 or 2 days... there's still the unknown but it also forces guilds to prioritize and gives other guilds a shot at raid targets that aren't highly prioritized by the upper tier guilds while also having the element of needing to race to targets.

Best idea yet.

[Skope]

Originally Posted by Aadill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Best idea yet.

No, because it doesnt do anything for vox, naggy, gore, sev. Maybe naggy, but repopping FGs is stupid. Furthermore, it doesn't address FTE, FFA, poopsock or what have you. Not to mention, how the hell is this gonna play in velious?

Throw variance in the toilet, let the babies work it out amongst themselves within actual classic EQ mechanics.

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Susanbanthony [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Keep the variance, just make it a full repop every time. Everything dies in a couple hours on full repops anyways, so the 7 day spawns with a +/- 2 day variance all end up in the same window anyway.

Just make the full repop a variance with +/- 1 or 2 days... there's still the unknown but it also forces guilds to prioritize and gives other guilds a shot at raid targets that aren't highly prioritized by the upper tier guilds while also having the element of needing to race to targets.

I like this idea but it's not clear when the windows would open for the next batch of repops. Would it be after the last boss is killed? Also isn't it a bit unfair that you only need to track naggy (for example) to know if Trak is up? Basically if one raid mob spawns you know the others have all spawned so you only need to track one. It doesn't seem as meritocratic as the current system.

[Susanbanthony]

It works for the dragons... why not?

Only do it for mobs with multiple day spawns (except perhaps Draco and Maestro). FG's and the like can stay at 12, 8, or 2 hours.

Velious is a different story, I'll give you that.

[Skope]

Nedala, if you're gonna be pulling shit out of your ass you may start with some common sense.

I never said poopsocking was the next alternative, in fact you did. Poopsock was there because the first group of 15+ in a zone got claim to a target. If you get rid of variance you wouldn't have that. Sat in the zone for 4 days to get innoruuk? tough shit, here's 20 people who are gonna engage him first that got here 5 minutes ago because they knew when he was going to spawn. Variance came in to discourage poopsocking because people thought nobody would actually poopsock. Well... they did anyway.

Want to cure poopsock with no variance? Make it rotation, make it FFA, make it FTE, make it /random between the guilds there. All of these imply no poopsock.

[Nedala]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nedala, if you're gonna be pulling shit out of your ass you may start with some common sense.

I never said poopsocking was the next alternative, in fact you did. Poopsock was there because the first group of 15+ in a zone got claim to a target. If you get rid of variance you wouldn't have that. Sat in the zone for 4 days to get innoruuk? tough shit, here's 20 people who are gonna engage him first that got here 5 minutes ago because they knew when he was going to spawn. Variance came in to discourage poopsocking because people thought nobody would actually poopsock. Well... they did anyway.

Want to cure poopsock with no variance? Make it rotation, make it FFA, make it FTE, make it /random between the guilds there. All of these imply no poopsock.

You are right, but these imply the other option i mentioned: A huge clusterfuck. We had this at noble dojorn before, when multiple guilds knew he was going to spawn. Cant you imagine what happens? How can you tell who was first to engage when 100+ from different guilds are sitting on his spawn point? You cant even call that raiding anymore, a mob spawns and multiple guilds beating on him so he goes down in 5 seconds, and then get a GM to decide who gets the loot, yay.

Make it /random between guilds? seriously?

None of your ideas is even nearly as good as what we current have. At least not for people that want to compete. And thats what EQ raiding is about, if we had a rotation i could go play EQ2 or WoW and raid instanced based.