Extensive evidence, full proof that Enchanters are non-classic and must be nerfed.

[Jibartik]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just so we're clear, your argument is that ... even though live had 20x (30x? 50x?) the number of Druids we have ... none of them were "creative enough" to A) go to the zones they were already XPing in (eg. South Karana), and B) cast two spells off their spell list (no goblin rings required) ... even though it would have given them noticeably faster XP?

YES i have made that so beyond clear.

Explain why for the grand majority of years there were no charming guids on P99?

For the same reason: players are lazy, and they dont think outside the box, when someone has already handed them a box.

Now they are handed tons of boxes, via youtube the wiki the forums and the collective knowledge that we ALL have after 10+ years.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

YES i have made that so beyond clear.

Explain why for the grand majority of years there were no charming guids on P99?

For the same reason: players are lazy, and they dont think outside the box, when someone has already handed them a box.

Now they are handed tons of boxes, via youtube the wiki the forums and the collective knowledge that we ALL have after 10+ years.

I guess this is the point where we agree to disagree. I think it's incredibly illogical to think that there were many multiples more Druids on live, all trying to earn XP as quickly as they could ... but not a one was willing to try using a spell on their list.

Or actually, it's worse than that: we know for a fact that there were Druid charm guides back then! So really you're arguing not only that people ignored their own spell list, but also that they ignored explicit guides telling them to charm ,,, despite the fact that it could mean faster XP.

That doesn't at all sounds like how EverQuest players (in any era) were.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Now, let me ask you something: did you play Street Fighter II? If so, you'd know that Ryu was a popular character, who had a powerful dragon punch attack. If I were to make a Street Fighter II emulator, and no one wanted to dragon punch with Ryu ... do I need to know the exact amount of damage for the dragon punch to know that I got wrong? Or can I tell that my emulator isn't emulating the original game properly, because people aren't playing my emulator the way they played the original?

**

The millennials would just claim all the "boomers" were idiots doing it wrong all along. Remember the runaround we had with combat bind wound until it was demonstrated impossible? Problem here is charm wasn't impossible, merely less reliable than on P99, so finding the required proof is dramatically less likely.

In the meantime I'm content to live with it as-is. Most "random" spells--not just charm, but root, invisible, etc--are probably tuned a little too friendly on P99. Entire reason groups fell over themselves for wanting enchanter crowd control was because Mez was reliable with its fixed duration and didn't break early all the time. Don't even care about having an enchanter around on P99. I prefer such spells being a little too "friendly" over the alternative of hitting them with an excessive nerfbat and making them all worse than they should be. Yuck. Leave it as-is until such a time as evidence allows it to be made exact. That'll take more work than I'm willing to put in.

Nobody will ever convince me that the lull spell line is right here, either. I was a Paladin and I tried everything with it, including heavy charisma sets/buffs. It was crap because of the artificially inflated resist rate it had. There's another one that's probably too good on P99. Mezzes memblur absurdly often too. Enchanters happen to get most of this stuff so they see a uniquely strong power boost from it, but really almost everyone benefits from something or other. Careful what you wish for.

(**I quoted your post from the other thread here, Loramin, instead of in that thread because it's off-topic for that thread, a Mage thread originally, but on-topic for this one)

Danth

[Lune]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I guess this is the point where we agree to disagree. I think it's incredibly illogical to think that there were many multiples more Druids on live, all trying to earn XP as quickly as they could ... but not a one was willing to try using a spell on their list.

Or actually, it's worse than that: we know for a fact that there were Druid charm guides back then! So really you're arguing not only that people ignored their own spell list, but also that they ignored explicit guides telling them to charm ,,, despite the fact that it could mean faster XP.

That doesn't at all sounds like how EverQuest players (in any era) were.

Early EQ players were bad compared to EQ players now due to the knowledge glut. I imagine most of them would try to charm a snake or something for gimmicks in groups but wouldn't think to make it into a leveling style, or they tried to do charm killing, tried to charm a high DB, found that it broke constantly, gave up, and went back to nuking shit down. I'm sure some druids were doing it for sure, but it was by no means common knowledge in early EQ. Don't forget the internet was very different then, the free flow of information more viscous.

[Jibartik]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I guess this is the point where we agree to disagree. I think it's incredibly illogical to think that there were many multiples more Druids on live, all trying to earn XP as quickly as they could ... but not a one was willing to try using a spell on their list.

Or actually, it's worse than that: we know for a fact that there were Druid charm guides back then! So really you're arguing not only that people ignored their own spell list, but also that they ignored explicit guides telling them to charm ,,, despite the fact that it could mean faster XP.

That doesn't at all sounds like how EverQuest players (in any era) were.

simply explain 1 thing:

Why was nobody was charming in the bear pits for 5-8 years on p99 except for a select few very elite players?

Or why people were barely if ever, even doing it in SK back then?

Because up until recently, then druid charming/enchanter charming was nerfed?

Everyone and their grandpa can defeat the solo artist challange now, but it was only a hyper select few for years, whats the deal?

[Jibartik]

correction, root sucks if yuo are a player!

If you're an NPC you can land that baby through walls and it lasts at the very least 1 minuet lol

So many times I just sitting there apologizing to my group, "soon guys, sitting here waiting for root to drop" from the dying mob rooting me after I left to go pull more haha

Also lull not working around corners holy smokes, that is the biggest change of pace to this game Ive felt so far.

[Jibartik]

I get max roots on basically every mob I root CC with my rangers crappy root.

It even flashes when it's going to fade, I just tab over between hits and when it flashy, I re-doey.

[Jibartik]

To bad when I swap and pull a mob out of range to do that everyone on live, just follows me to that new mob and assists even though im the puller/backup utillity, not MA :smacks forehead:

[Arvan]

We all know star/recondo is the same person with multiple accounts but why does he quote himself and respond to himself? Is it some kind of severe mental disorder? Should we be finding him help?

[drackgon]

Loramin, you ever thought, your own personal Experience and memories are different then what you truly remember 20 years ago. Also, you ask why did so many enchanters group back then? Simple

A) EQ IS AN MMO. Meaning players wanted to party and group and play with friends. Not everyone is a solo junkie like they do now(blame wiki for that, the thing you love so much)
B) Just bc there was lots of guides, and only 1 charm guide. Doesn't mean crap. How many gamers kept hidden knowledge to themselves? Cough Fire pots, Epic quest info. Not every game wants 2 share their knowledge. Hell I am sure in someones attic, is some nice little notebooks they wrote up guides for THEMSELVES, not to post on Gamefaqs, or Allak, or whatever site.

C) Internet- Have you tried charming while lagging like heck on Dial up? I am sure, how reliable is that vs now on cable connections. Charming is much safer now, bc you had random lag spikes, or DC's on dial up compared to now. Hence very very very few solo'd. (I remeber my uncles friend on his necro soloing alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll the time in Lguk with his spec pet, was beyond jelly with my 14 year old eyes bleeding in nerdgasm)

D) Instead of focusing on Enchanters. How bout you focus on Necros.. Who still can't life tap most mobs in game. Bc of a damn Ivanders hoop(instead of nerfing it, they nerf'd a whole damn class oh and SKs) Also Cant send pets across zone like you could.. Wheres this classic fixes at??? Druid Track still wrong. Never had the pre hate event in kith. SSTAMINA?? Where is the drain when I swim? Or swing a sword? There are buffs/songs that was DESIGNED for this feature.

I hate how so much changes are based on info on wayback. Some yes I am sure is great info. But most of it is just bc Look one person said it. Its gotta be true.