Game Mechanics: ST Post Kerafym Changes

[karadin]

For Vanquish:

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39% of golems had some sort of primal on them out of our 238 kills. I can't personally find any in-era evidence that the drop rate is less than 100%, but I'm sure somebody has if that is what P99 has been rolling with for so long. I'm trying to get in touch with some Velious era guilds to see if they might have information on that stored somewhere.

[Dolalin]

I've been going through the Enlightened Dark guild news page and cataloging all their drops.

I'm only up to May 2001 in parsing the drops so this will take some time but their page is very comprehensive and they almost always listed every drop.

Examples:

https://web.archive.org/web/20020602...s.html?month=2

Once there are some hard numbers then objective decisions can be made.

[Gorbok]

Originally Posted by Dolalin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've been going through the Enlightened Dark guild news page and cataloging all their drops.

I'm only up to May 2001 in parsing the drops so this will take some time but their page is very comprehensive and they almost always listed every drop.

Examples:

https://web.archive.org/web/20020602...s.html?month=2

Once there are some hard numbers then objective decisions can be made.

Interesting. Sadly, though, it looks like they mostly (entirely?) stopped posting ST loot after they woke Sleeper. Their pre-awakening loot seemed kind of consistent with our loot, at least insomuch as they were complaining about a lack of 1hb and 1hp primals haha.

[Croco]

Originally Posted by Gorbok [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Interesting. Sadly, though, it looks like they mostly (entirely?) stopped posting ST loot after they woke Sleeper. Their pre-awakening loot seemed kind of consistent with our loot, at least insomuch as they were complaining about a lack of 1hb and 1hp primals haha.

If you read through the forum posts that are linked earlier in this thread though there's a guild saying they saw far more 1 hand primals than they ever did from the golems when the sleeper was still sleeping.

[eisley]

Originally Posted by Gorbok [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Interesting. Sadly, though, it looks like they mostly (entirely?) stopped posting ST loot after they woke Sleeper. Their pre-awakening loot seemed kind of consistent with our loot, at least insomuch as they were complaining about a lack of 1hb and 1hp primals haha.

I was in Enlightened Dark and indeed, we stopped doing ST entirely after waking the sleeper. It was relegated to off-hours pickup raids. I remember trying to tank MotG on Themy. It did not go well.

That said, I did clear ST quite a bit after the changes, and it was indeed very easy. I had no issue tanking the trash on a ranger. We'd have like 6-12 people typically. I never noticed a disparity in 1h vs 2h to be honest, but I didn't pay very close attention.

(Also, I loaned Nazlug like a million plat worth of stuff on p99 a few years ago and he disappeared one day :[ )

[azxten]

Oh and a separate note about the trolling.

Trolling in the bug report forum should probably warrant an immediate suspension/ban. Like I said, it upsets contributors, who in turn get frustrated and post things that upset the staff, and so on. Strict rules about posts here would probably also help things. For example, maybe no one here should even be questioning if proof is sufficient or not except staff.

All posts and comments here should require research or they should be deleted. I doubt there is any value in the "please fix this!" or "Yes, this would be awesome!" or "I don't remember it being like that on live" and so on comments. Every single comment here should have research either confirming or denying a specific bug.

If the staff needs feedback on which bugs players want fixed the most there would be more effective means to get that information than random people commenting about how much a certain bug bothers them or they wish it would be fixed.

I do all of these things I'm complaining about by the way because it's the way things are here. I post things I think were bugs with zero research and let others tell me I'm wrong and so on. It's like why not? That's the easiest way to vet a bug initially, start a discussion and see what others contribute. That kind of thing is probably better suited to the general forums though if people want to just gather feedback, memories, and so on. It's still a valuable function though just not so useful cluttering up these forums.

Lorekeeper staff member with forum mod permissions over the bug forums and an established process for updating status and communicating between volunteers/staff seems like a huge win in my opinion.

[Tigerstyle Wutangfist]

I think the tl;dr is (1) post awakening Sleeper's Tomb mobs should be easier (less flurry, no see invis and sneak/hide); (2)Prog/MOTG/FA should drop Primal weapons more often than current; and (3)primal drop rate should be more even across weapon types.

Some citations from prior posts /external sources -

https://web.archive.org/web/20011030...c&f=4&t=000292

September 22, 2001 07:38 PM
For example:

- Ancient sentries no longer flurry. They are trivial to kill.
- MotG is now easily slowable/cripple/etc. Before it was quite an accomplishment for 10 to 11 people to kill the MotG, now it can be killed with as few as 4 or 5 people.
- Prog is similar to MotG as far as the spell resistances. It used to require effort, now it is trivial.
- No mob in ST sees invis now. Before, they all saw invis.

September 24, 2001 09:45 AM
Easier or not, i havent looted anything but 1 prmial 1hs, 2 primal axe and 1 primal 2hand piercing in 4 month of ST. In 1 months since Kerafrym awaken and ST been fixed, we looted more Primal 1hb and 1h piercing than we ever loot of warder. nuff said.

September 24, 2001 01:15 PM

Regardless, every mob in ST is only a shadow of what they were before Kerafrym was released. The fact that they don't see invis now makes CR trivial which wasn't in the past. The drop rates are like 4X what they once were. Killing everything down to the Warders once netted about 1 primal weapon and 2 priceless. Now that can be gotten just from killing the sentries and MotG. We cleaned ST out (before Kerafyrm release) except for the Warders a few times and got nothing at all. Basically ST is about 1/3 the difficulty as before (if not less) and drops at least 3X the rate as before (sans Warders, of course). (MUCH) Less risk and more reward.

A few posts from Croco/others regarding current drop % showing huge disparity and lack of 1hs/1hb/1hp in that order I believe

A number of quality posts from Dolalin as always.

[nilbog]

Originally Posted by Tigerstyle Wutangfist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

(2)Prog/MOTG/FA should drop Primal weapons more often than current;

I am confused about this. Right now, on p99, the named golems have a 100% chance of dropping a primal weapon, each time, pre sleeper waking. They have a 50% chance post sleeper waking.

According to the research posted in this thread, they should not drop primal at 100%, pre or post sleeper.

This suggests 20%.

But to Fitten, just because the zone is easier doesn't mean we, as the guild just starting to enter it, want it that way. Sure, its easier to get primal from motg/prog now..but I for one would way rather have it back the way it was before. No warders will cut down primal a ton, since golems seem to drop primal bout 1/5 kills.
https://web.archive.org/web/20011030...c&f=4&t=000292

This suggests 100%.

That said, we cleared all the Sentries from the zone-in to the area around the MToG and the Prog, including all the spawns inside the Prog room (basically everything from zone-in to the doors leading to the Library). We then COH'd down and took out the FA. For the effort:

MToG = 1 Primal Warsword
Prog = 1 Primal Brawlstick
FA = 1 Primal Hammer

No numbers, but possible 0% per raid, so <100%.

The "good" thing about the 4th warder being killed is that ST becomes easier to raid - no mobs see invis, the 3 named golems drop primal (although you can still go through motg, prog, and final arb and get 0 drops)...and that's it.

Rare chance? <100%

However, those 3 named golems (master of the guard, the proginator (or whatever), and the final arbitor) have a rare chance of dropping primal. The regular golems continue to drop priceless.

Not very common. <100%.

The Golems can drop Primal without the Sleeper awakened. Its not very common, but we got a few Primal 2H handers and few 1H handers from Proj and FA before Sleeper was freed. The only change to the named Golems after the Sleeper is that they can no longer See Invis, their spawn time is decreased from several days to 2 days, and Prismatic Dragonscales are added to the drop tables.

Primal weapon %s of lootdrop:

Originally Posted by Tigerstyle Wutangfist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

(3)primal drop rate should be more even across weapon types.

Some citations from prior posts /external sources -

https://web.archive.org/web/20011030...c&f=4&t=000292

A few posts from Croco/others regarding current drop % showing huge disparity and lack of 1hs/1hb/1hp in that order I believe

A number of quality posts from Dolalin as always.

Adjusting the % of primal drops on the lootdrop itself is a next step. The weapons likely need to have equal chances of dropping post-Sleeper.

[Tigerstyle Wutangfist]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am confused about this. Right now, on p99, the named golems have a 100% chance of dropping a primal weapon, each time, pre sleeper waking. They have a 50% chance post sleeper waking.

Knowing the actual percent from this statement changes my belief (when comparing to the historical posts) that the drop rate would need adjusting. Based on personal experience post sleeper I would of guessed 20-30% at most. RNG is RNG.

I appreciate your review and dialog with us concerning this.

[Tigerstyle Wutangfist]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They have a 50% chance post sleeper waking.

Does this mean there is a flat 50% chance to have an item, then it determines what item based of weight? or are you saying it might be along these lines below..

50% nothing
8% 2hp
8% 2hs sword
8% 2hs axe
8% 2hb
5% 1hs
5% 1hp
5% 1hb
3% bow

I ask this because a number of Chardok 2.0 named were/are in a state of "bugged" where they were weighted to have a guaranteed drop 100% of the time, but due to modification of items were left in a state where the possible drop pool only added up to 90%, resulting in 10% of the time the mob having 0 items.