FFA vs Faction PVP

[Heywood]

Originally Posted by jbs89 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

then go run with the bluebies; if you want to pvp Faction based PvP promotes diversity where FFA promotes oh 1 or two uber guilds with their drama.. sounds like some blueberry stuff; you can do that already go hand in your Book of Discord ... its simple

Hahah oh my. First your main argument was "verant wanted faction based pvp" and I debunked your theory by letting you know that Rallos Zek was a Guild v Guild pvp server which was just as successful as tz and vz. Not only that but you even admitted that Rallos Zek was the first pvp server.

Then you say that eq is harder and I should play WoW because it's easier. However it's YOU who wants this server to be like wow, with a Good vs Bad server. Eq is too hard for me? I have stated that I played on Rallos Zek, you know, the server with item loot and where ANYBODY in lvl range could attack you? Yea, that's probably "easier" than every other pvp server eq had. What was I thinking.

NOW you're trying to imply that I'm a "bluesbie"? In the 7+ years I've played between eqlive and emu pvp, I have never been called that haha. Goes to show, the more you write, the more it's evident that you're ignorant to the pvp cause. You never did answer the question, where have you pvp'd that you're so adamant that faction pvp is the way to go? People have already exposed the flaws in faction based pvp, but instead of trying to refute the statements, all you do is talk out of your ass and say asinine stuff like "go play wow, you don't belong here. I want a server where there's two factions, where Paladins are on one side and shamans are on the other" and "you're a bluesbie, you want a server where everyone attacks each other. I want a server where half the population can't attack each other."


I am done proving you wrong, time and time again sir.

[Abacab "The REAL truth"]

Originally Posted by wehrmacht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's not PvP. It's automatically winning the server by starting with a guild on day 1 while most other people start solo and helpless.

Having teams mitigates the power of people doing that on day 1 much better than FFA does.

Isn't that how the world works?

People surrounding themselves with the most competent people that take and follow orders is the very basics of power and control... Cavemen didn't fight mammoths solo, they recruited the strongest to go out and beat the beast so they could get fat off it's spoils, it was mutual protection and alliances that either made or broke nations.

To say this is any different in a video game where people will contest commodity through force is naive, people will ALWAYS bolster their numbers, purge the bad, keep the good and no matter if it's FFA or teams there will be a small 2% of the population controlling 99% of the content and that is the nature of the machine

[wehrmacht]

You're talking about monopolies and there's no reason to create a rule set that enforces the power of monopolies day 1 of the server.

[Abacab "The REAL truth"]

Originally Posted by wehrmacht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're talking about monopolies and there's no reason to create a rule set that enforces the power of monopolies day 1 of the server.

You're such a socialist bro

PvP is about as ultra-capitalist as you get, if you want something then you take it, if you can't take it alone get more people to assist you because chances are they want a piece of the pie too. FFA PvP allows for people to group to reach common goals and smash the inferior with a bigger roster of skilled players, this is how it should be done because the alternative is rather lame.

If you chose to do teams and socialize the aspect of PvP by carebearing them from the harsh reality of "if you're not good enough..." or "you're just not charismatic/popular enough..." by forcing them into teams then there is no real risk, we can all hold hands and do plane of fear with 180+ halflings, dwarfs, and high elfs in some gigantic zerg coalition just to beat some 30 player darkie guild. Then you're on exacerbating the problem of one large force completely dominating all content and what makes it worse is you can't do shit about it unless you roll on the opposing team and make a bigger zerg force and play zone ping pong.

In short what are you going to do about some good team guild that has 90% of the talented player base, that competes and takes 85% of all the content if you're also on the good team? If you don't get in that guild through some major cocksucking (I.E if some officer just doesn't like you) you're never going to get camps because you cannot handle them through PvP by normal means and it becomes just as blue as porject1999 because there is not shit you can do besides roll evil and attempt to dislodge them (and most likely fail due to numbers/skill/gear)

FFA will prevent majordomo guilds that control the entire faction and run the server into the ground from locking out less-abled players from achieving anything past black burrow where they will be picked off by the opposing faction with no reinforcements because they are single, lone straglers

[jbs89]

Originally Posted by wehrmacht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're talking about monopolies and there's no reason to create a rule set that enforces the power of monopolies day 1 of the server.

everything this guy said has been 100% true

Originally Posted by Heywood [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hahah oh my. First your main argument was "verant wanted faction based pvp" and I debunked your theory by letting you know that Rallos Zek was a Guild v Guild pvp server which was just as successful as tz and vz. Not only that but you even admitted that Rallos Zek was the first pvp server.

Then you say that eq is harder and I should play WoW because it's easier. However it's YOU who wants this server to be like wow, with a Good vs Bad server. Eq is too hard for me? I have stated that I played on Rallos Zek, you know, the server with item loot and where ANYBODY in lvl range could attack you? Yea, that's probably "easier" than every other pvp server eq had. What was I thinking.

NOW you're trying to imply that I'm a "bluesbie"? In the 7+ years I've played between eqlive and emu pvp, I have never been called that haha. Goes to show, the more you write, the more it's evident that you're ignorant to the pvp cause. You never did answer the question, where have you pvp'd that you're so adamant that faction pvp is the way to go? People have already exposed the flaws in faction based pvp, but instead of trying to refute the statements, all you do is talk out of your ass and say asinine stuff like "go play wow, you don't belong here. I want a server where there's two factions, where Paladins are on one side and shamans are on the other" and "you're a bluesbie, you want a server where everyone attacks each other. I want a server where half the population can't attack each other."


I am done proving you wrong, time and time again sir.

you debunked my theory? They saw what a trainwreck Guild Drama pvp servers were and quickly made a server based off game factions not Drama nerd factions; confirming what Ive been saying this entire time, you keep trying to dance around the fact that "First is the Worst" philosophy; and you keep priding cause the No-Man's Land guild trash server was first

I dont see one flaw exposed??? THERE IS NO FLAW EXCEPT PVE; which should suffer on a PVP server... open hostile No-Man's Land with 1 god guild... thats gonna be lame; thats for egotistical jerks

Faction Based is Story-Orietented and it makes things ALOT more interesting....

that way there is ATLEAST 2 guilds on server...

Id like to see an ACTUAL ISSUE with Dark or Light side not having another class...

Shamans can heal a raid fine right??

Dont Dark Elves get Cleric or something as well?? I cant remember

[Abacab "The REAL truth"]

This is how teams will play out if let's say we have a population of 350 constant in a perfect situation with minimal guilds and low "guildless" pop:


Good guilds composing of 44.27% (155 players) of the server population
---------------

• Guild 1 62
• Guild 2 37
• Guild 3 28
• Guild 4 16
• Guild 5 12

Evil guilds composing of 53.72% (188 players) of the server population
---------------

• Guild 1 71
• Guild 2 39
• Guild 3 38
• Guild 4 22
• Guild 5 18

The remaining 2% of the population remains guildless

Essentially guilds 1-3 on both the evil and good team would have the force required to contest raid encounters and rare spawns, each side has one "zerg" guild with two other smaller guilds capable of doing the same feat.

Over time one guild from each side begins to press dominance and smaller guilds pool into the larger ones (guilds 4-5 combine to contribute to the raiding scene) now each side has 4 major guilds and this continue to fracture and pool into the zerg guilds until only 3 guilds remain on each side.

The largest and most powerful guilds compete within their faction to maintain dominance of being majordomo, the guild who calls the shots for their faction, it will be that guild who contests the opposing faction on raid encounters while the lower tier guilds begin to seclude themselves to casual raiding and pvp while the majordomo rakes in all the good and talented members and presses content.

By the end of the run only 1 guild from each faction will have the skill, numbers, and dedication to contest raid encounters and will control their factions economy, raid system, recruitment, camp rules, and rotations within the faction because there is no PvP recourse outside the opposing faction....

This leads to the smaller guilds and unguilded people to be completely stepped on in terms of camps, it allows them to be "ignored" if they breech the majordomo's "rule set" and will be subject to being prey'd upon by the opposing faction with no recourse by over half the server due to internal politics.

This is why FFA is a must, to end internal faction politics and majordomo style management of a faction

[Heywood]

You hit the nail with the guild v guild/capitalism comparison.

What you described in your scenario is exactly what you said, a perfect world situation.


However, this is what I think will be a likelier scenario. Let's say 60 percent of the pop roll evil and 40 percent roll good. As time goes by, the weaker portion of good population reroll an evil character so that the rest of the evil population won't be able to gank them. Over time, it turns 75% evil, 25% good. It creates a snowball effect and will dwindle the lower faction even more. Not to mention that two strong guilds in the same faction won't be able to pvp each other for bosses, so they'll resort to training and other low-ball tactics.

Under a faction v faction server, it doesn't promote Pvp, it promotes nut hugging the stronger faction. A stronger guild in a faction pvp server is offering protection for the entire faction not just the guild. If an evil guild is trying naggy, other non-guilded evils can pve in solb without fear. And in return, if a good guild tries to contest naggy, the non-guilded evils will hold hands with the evil guild to get naggy down.

In a guild v guild server, the stronger guild is only offering protection for those in the guild. If a guild is trying naggy, you can bet your sweet ass they'll pvp until no one else is in zone. And they'll be constantly be looking over their backs.

And who cares about the server being "story oriented"? We are not asking for a lore-focused server. We are asking for a PVP server, not a FV server.

[Giddian]

As long as the server is item loot enough players will stay good to field gank groups and farm the twinks of the nuthuggers. It could be heaven for the real pvp players with soooo many targets.

[wehrmacht]

When people talk about FFA, they always leave out all the downfalls it has which are about 100x more than teams based. On a FFA server, you're basically required to join a guild or you might as well quit because if you don't, you'll rarely find a group for XP, people will just kill you. You'll be forced to solo 99% of the time. Many classes are not only terrible for soloing for XP but terrible for solo PvP as well. With the ridiculous stuff Null wants to do with the resist system, even less classes are viable for solo PvP. So this brings up the first few critical flaws of FFA. You have to find a powerful guild to join or there's no point in playing at all.

Even if you do find a guild to join, if it isn't one of the top two on the server, you'll have access to no useful zones at all which means you'll have no equipment and won't be able to kill anyone other. Just another reason to make tons of people quit. With team based, your team will have zone control of certain areas and you'll actually be able to play the game no matter how shitty of a guild you're in or if you're a casual or solo player so there won't be a mass exodus off the server.

I'm not against FFA, it's just that EQ is a horrible game for that rule set. If you insist on a FFA game, you should be playing UO instead since it's a much better suited game for it. The only PvP that really makes sense at all for EQ is team based.

There's no reason to choose FFA with all the negatives it has that affect population when you should only be choosing options that increase population in order to make sure the server is successful

[notahipster]

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