Heard that velious will be the last expansion, is this true?

[azeth]

naw i wont, bummer :\ but I still love EQ, wish i was 14 again with infinite time.

[yorumi]

Originally Posted by Massive Marc [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They have a name for that. It's called: Bad Game Design.

ROFL, I can't... I don't believe CR is the reason people come to play Everquest, or that it even enters in to their mind. I also disagree that the only excitement involved in grinding exp is, the chance you might have to do a hour long corpse run. The excitement for ME, is a chance at loot, being able to learn my character better, enjoying the group experience. Basically everything BUT corpse runs.

Well you're totally wrong, there are people who think about corpse runs and I'm one of them. There's a huge difference between "oh no I died guess I'm not running around there anymore" and "oh shit I might lose my corpse and be freaken screwed." I like that aspect of the game, it added real danger to zones. You may not like it but you are not everyone stop thinking you are.

you mixing apples and oranges here.
No one said remove Xp penalty on death or add 10 min Immune timer, or re-spawn right outside where you killed.
The talk was about CR ONLY - which is dumb.
You can argue all you want that it adds difficulty to the game, but what it adds in reality is a time-sink full of frustration

If the argument is that it's a timesink then you can use that argument for any and every time sink. Which is what most if not all of the current mmos do. This is why mmos are the way they are "it's a time sink remove it" is repeated over and over and over and we get the current generation of easy mode mmos, think about how pathetic mmos are that by comparison eq is hard. If someone can come up with no better argument for removing something than "its a time sink" then you have no foundation to stand on.

[beaon]

AOW, Original Tunare(Hardest encounter in vellious IMHO), CT, Dain, Yelinak, Aaryonar, Lord Vyemm(Hardest encounter in TOV IMHO). All of the kunark dragons using aoe fear ect. Many of these encounters are memorable, challenging, and interesting.

And sure there were tank and spank mobs. Thinks like King Tormax, Statue of RallosZek and many of the dragons in TOV with weak aoe's. And I'm sure you could think of others.

But by and large it can be easily argued that many of the encounters in vellious/kunark were very interesting, challenging, different, and memorable. Shit Cazic Thule was old world and he was fun/interesting clear through vellious.

It's an opinion of mine(Only an opinion) that many encounters in POP were tedious and nuanced. Additionally you ALWAYS had to clear a gigantic zone just to nearly wipe to a mob that dropped only 2 items of shitty loot.

IMHO SoL made encounters more interesting(Discounting VT). But when I think of Emp encounter, Cursed encounter, and that wurm in the deep. I think of those things as adding to interesting factors of EQ. But when I think of POP gods, not so much. Spending 3 hours to clear a zone just to kill a mob doesn't sound like fun to me. Especially when the loot is sub-par. And lets be honest with our selves. People didn't do plains encounters for the fun or even the loot of it. They did it for time keys. That was it.

On the flip side during vellious all of vellious raid content, and much of kunark and classic content was frequently raided for it's loot and the fun of it. Point being that the encounters were still memorable and the loot was competitive, even if 3 expansions old.

However a time keyed guild had no reason to raid outside of potime. That meant much of the raid content prior went left idle.

ofc all of these are opinions. Your obviuosly welcome to agree to disagree.

What I have observed is people who came up in EQ during the POP era vehemothly defend the expansion. That is great, it is great you love POP. The point I am making is that it is a different game. It is not EQ classic. It is not what classic EQ goers want.

[azeth]

yea the emp ssra fight was incredible if you did it relatively per progression with appropriate gear. i think on RN we dropped him with 30ish people our first time around and we were barely in deep NToV gear. Also, in regard to the Tunare fight - my guild unfortunately was informed of the Ogre wall tactic prior to giving her a shot on our own so it was pretty trivial.

edit: im positive emp ssra dropped that beastly sword x2 on our kill too.

[One Tin Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kika Maslyaka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you mixing apples and oranges here.
No one said remove Xp penalty on death or add 10 min Immune timer, or re-spawn right outside where you killed.
The talk was about CR ONLY - which is dumb.
You can argue all you want that it adds difficulty to the game, but what it adds in reality is a time-sink full of frustration

It doesn't make say killing Nagafen any more difficult, it only makes it running back every time more annoying.

I may be mixing apples and oranges but you are setting up straw men so you can knock them down. I never said corpse runs add difficulty. I said CRs suck. I said they are supposed to suck.

As you said, all a CR really amounts to is a time sink. That being the case maybe I wasn't mixing apples and oranges after all. Experience loss is a just a time sink as well. And if you don't spawn right beside your bodies the only other option to eliminate CRs is to spawn with all your loot. Ok, where do you respawn? At the nearest town? At the dungeon entrance or zone line? If you don't respawn right were you where you would have to run back (assuming you want to keep fighting there) and OMG that's a time sink.

The crux of this whole argument is whether or not death should hurt enough to make people dislike dying. It's all just a matter of degrees. In my opinion, if dying isn't painfull enough to upset you at least a little then it isn't painfull enough. Dying should be unpleasant. People should hate it when it happens.

[beaon]

Originally Posted by yorumi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well you're totally wrong, there are people who think about corpse runs and I'm one of them. There's a huge difference between "oh no I died guess I'm not running around there anymore" and "oh shit I might lose my corpse and be freaken screwed." I like that aspect of the game, it added real danger to zones. You may not like it but you are not everyone stop thinking you are.



If the argument is that it's a timesink then you can use that argument for any and every time sink. Which is what most if not all of the current mmos do. This is why mmos are the way they are "it's a time sink remove it" is repeated over and over and over and we get the current generation of easy mode mmos, think about how pathetic mmos are that by comparison eq is hard. If someone can come up with no better argument for removing something than "its a time sink" then you have no foundation to stand on.

@Massive Mark
Look some people think playing grand turismo is dumb. But thats a subjective preference, devoid of objective fact. Your preference on CR's is the same. Making CR's go away is not classic, its a different game. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Whether or not it's good or bad game design is up to debate.

The good new is that you are not the sole arbiter of what is and is not good game design.

[Massive Marc]

Originally Posted by yorumi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well you're totally wrong, there are people who think about corpse runs and I'm one of them. There's a huge difference between "oh no I died guess I'm not running around there anymore" and "oh shit I might lose my corpse and be freaken screwed." I like that aspect of the game, it added real danger to zones. You may not like it but you are not everyone stop thinking you are.

Ok ?...

Good for you, you are part of a small minority of people that would rather CR, then play the actual game.

Originally Posted by yorumi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If the argument is that it's a timesink then you can use that argument for any and every time sink. Which is what most if not all of the current mmos do. This is why mmos are the way they are "it's a time sink remove it" is repeated over and over and over and we get the current generation of easy mode mmos, think about how pathetic mmos are that by comparison eq is hard. If someone can come up with no better argument for removing something than "its a time sink" then you have no foundation to stand on.

The difference is, when you're in a timesink exp grind/loot grind/raid grind.. any other timesink in this game, you are actually PLAYING the game. Notice how I haven't brought up ANY OTHER aspect of game play except for CR. That's because everything else you do in game besides a CR is for some kinda gain.

You have gotten better at Corpse Retrieval (3)

EDIT: fucking quote fail.

[beaon]

If your argument is that only things that give immediate or frequent rewards then why have difficult encounters at all? Why add the risk at all? Only give players rewards at every possible interval of gaming? Why even have death at all?

I suspect you will change your reasoning on us now. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Massive Marc]

Originally Posted by beaon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

@Massive Mark
Look some people think playing grand turismo is dumb. But thats a subjective preference, devoid of objective fact. Your preference on CR's is the same. Making CR's go away is not classic, its a different game. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Whether or not it's good or bad game design is up to debate.

The good new is that you are not the sole arbiter of what is and is not good game design.

When the cons outweigh the pros , it's bad game design, which SOE was notorious for.

[beaon]

Originally Posted by Massive Marc [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When the cons outweigh the pros , it's bad game design, which SOE was notorious for.

In your opinion.