Spells: Pacify duration incorrect for timeline

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by spoil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I notice in all these classic discussions of the lull spell line, there's not a single mention of the word "charisma." So I would expect a level 54 enchanter with 83 CHA trying to use wake of tranquility on a pack of level 50+ mobs in upper dogs to consider the lull spell line to be suicidal. They didn't know anything about the game.

No, stop lying. Charisma doesn't do anything in the first place to affect initial resist chance on lull. There's tons of posts from people with high Charisma trying to lull things far below their level and it doesn't work. For example, from page 13 of the first link about lull on my previous post:

"Lull resists in upwards of 75% of casting, a drolvarg rager when I was 49th resisted Pacify 80% of 20 casts (16) and aggroed for 8 of those. I had 217 Charisma at the time"

That's simply how the game was and you're showing how inexperienced you are with classic to say otherwise. People absolutely were trying to get high CHA on Enchanters, it was known to make mesmerize better (Extensive CHA testing / "At 137 CHA I had 45% resist rate, at 217 CHA I had 37% resist rate" / "I wouldn't recommend doing Hate plane with less than 200 CHA"), which was important because root was harder to stick back then and it was harder to channel, so people highly valued mez.

That's why Enchanters were mad when Velious came out (along with most other casters - Velious zone feedback / Why being a caster in Velious really sucks / A Fundamental Flaw: Why the EQ System Is Breaking Down At High Levels) - because resists were too high on NPC's in the expansion and giants couldn't be mezzed at all. There are posts that describe how "crowd control has now become people kiting around snared NPCs".

I specifically searched for examples of Level 60 people trying to lull in places like the Planes or Kael or Grotto or Sebilis or Chardok and there's zero classic examples of it ever being viable. If anyone wants to search for examples from the first 9 months of Luclin, lull was still trash during that time period too. The spell line was expressly made terrible by Verant after beta because they didn't want people playing the game like that.

[Keebz]

Relevant Torven links:

https://www.eqemulator.org/forums/sh...23&postcount=4

https://www.eqemulator.org/forums/sh...11&postcount=9

Just for my own sanity, we're talking to Torven right?

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's simply how the game was and you're showing how inexperienced you are with classic to say otherwise. People absolutely were trying to get high CHA on Enchanters, it was known to make mesmerize better (Extensive CHA testing / "At 137 CHA I had 45% resist rate, at 217 CHA I had 37% resist rate" / "I wouldn't recommend doing Hate plane with less than 200 CHA"), which was important because root was harder to stick back then and it was harder to channel, so people highly valued mez.

You're extrapolating what a few people knew to a whole player base. If you go to the allakhazam comment sections of all the staple cha items for the era it appeared the jury was still out on cha. Most players seemed to consider it a secondary stat or at best on par with int.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I specifically searched for examples of Level 60 people trying to lull in places like the Planes or Kael or Grotto or Sebilis or Chardok and there's zero classic examples of it ever being viable. If anyone wants to search for examples from the first 9 months of Luclin, lull was still trash during that time period too. The spell line was expressly made terrible by Verant after beta because they didn't want people playing the game like that.

Even on here lulling in Kael/sirens/planes is difficult due to high MR. chardok is the easiest with like 1/5 crit resist on a ~53mob. You're the one who sounds inexperienced, lull isn't even viable in SG on green, some days it takes me 2 full mana bars worth of WOTs to get the 3 ent seahorses calmed.

Like, I don't think your position is necessarily wrong but you're clearly misrepresenting the state of live at the time and current green which makes people doubt your claims/research.

[WarpathEQ]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"Lull resists in upwards of 75% of casting, a drolvarg rager when I was 49th resisted Pacify 80% of 20 casts (16) and aggroed for 8 of those. I had 217 Charisma at the time"

Seems to line up pretty well with the figures that nilbog posted for mob level resist rates and CHA based agro rates.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're extrapolating what a few people knew to a whole player base.

No, it was stated in 1999 by the devs what CHA did. People didn't know the exact numbers on how things worked, but they knew you wanted high CHA on Enchanters and Bards, and the starting stats at character creation make that apparent. In terms of the "whole player base", far less people were informed about most things in general, but that's irrelevant to this. The highest level players were the most in-the-know and lull was not working for anyone.

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

lull isn't even viable in SG on green, some days it takes me 2 full mana bars worth of WOTs to get the 3 ent seahorses calmed.

This sentence literally describes how lull is viable there on p99, when it shouldn't be.

Talk about misrepresentation.

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This sentence literally describes how lull is viable there on p99, when it shouldn't be.

Talk about misrepresentation.

If you played the game sometimes you'd remember the only reason it is "viable" in SG is because sea creatures won't come to land.

That's what I mean by using bad faith arguments to prove an otherwise valid point. You could literally have made your point using any other zone in the game but you picked the most overtuned ones and still ended up being wrong.

[Zuranthium]

I'm not wrong at all. You fallaciously stated that taking 2 bubbles of mana to Lull 3 level 50+ NPC's equates to being "not viable", when that is a massive cheat code compared to Classic EQ. You shouldn't be able to Lull those targets at all and even a group of 3 level 40-49 NPC's should be nearly impossible to completely lull.

Getting 3 lulls to land on level 40-49 NPC's is supposed to be only a 9% chance of working (45% roll for each target), and even more importantly, Lull is supposed to resist check every single tick and end early. So actually, you need to time Wake of Tranquility perfectly to land right after a tick happens, and even then you have barely any time to use it. Realistically, you're down to a mere 1% chance of being able to WOT 3 NPC's and safely run through (although, order of operations in the server code becomes important here — is Lull still supposed to work on the tick that it ends? I'm not sure — that's something Nilbog may need to decide on). Hence why everyone who played Classic has stated that lulls suck, WOT in particular.

And what are you even talking about with trying to say I'm using Siren's Grotto as a sole example? You're the one who made the bizarre statement about that zone. There aren't ANY high level zones where lull was considered good in classic and there's 0 examples of it ever working on Level 50+ targets.

[Wayward]

Zuranthium, who gives a shit? I take it you've already had your fun on P99.. And we're discussing these changes to return it "closer to classic" several years after the majority of the population has already moved on from P99 Green to new games.

I get that Nilbog wants to recreate classic as best as he can, but you are on some sort of whacked out crusade, that won't affect anyone or anything. Green's been at the end of timeline for 5 years now.

[Zuranthium]

There will be a fresh server at some point. Changes keep being made either way, and these are huge ones that should've happened ages ago. Channeling, lull, charm, and resists in general being wrong are major things that drastically change the game. The entirety of p99's history has been fake, when put into perspective. People still haven't gotten to play the real p99.