Looking for staff clarification on rules about camping

[Kika Maslyaka]

Originally Posted by Teppler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lists get convoluted in many different ways. If rules became king, when I log on I might sign up for any and every desirable camp and just see which opens up first. Then we're gonna end up with every camp having a list of 100 people with people freely logging in and out. It'd be a mess. I'm not sure what the answer is.

I agree - all top lists will be filled 3 months ahead [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
But it will be actually easier for devs to enforce - they just look at the list [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]


Ideally, you want late SOE pnp policy, where all camps must be shared. 1st person gets 1 kill/1 loot, and then camp goes to whoever was here next the longest - literally waiting at the spot for hours without leaving. That of course will require some insane CSR to enforce, which P99 simply doesn't have.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by Hotel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bruh, if you can find an idol today in EC ill buy it from u for 1k.

I got one. How badly you want those end game pixels? 1k ain't gonna cut it

[Oleris]

Let's just set up a vendor to buy them for 1k. Problem solved.

[aaezil]

What aftermath thinks of you

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[Teppler]

Originally Posted by aaezil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What aftermath thinks of you

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Are you really playing everquest if you don't get that into it? I support those messages.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Teppler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Forgive me for not reading the rest of the thread yet but allow me to give you a scenario.

I’m holding a camp and there’s a list. Suddenly my friend logs on and wants to go next. I pull the plug on my connection. Suddenly list is gone and I can say I had connection problems. Camp becomes open. Friend is right there. The list was cheated and you’ll never prove it.

Originally Posted by Kika Maslyaka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only way to enforce the list in this case is to have it going LIVE and recorded on these very forums in real time.
So at any given time person can sigh up to the list or see who is next.

So, devs can make a separate forum, and we can have a thread going for each major camp. WOOT 2019 pixels!

P.S. God, how did we do NTVO without the Idol back in a day???

Originally Posted by Teppler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lists get convoluted in many different ways. If rules became king, when I log on I might sign up for any and every desirable camp and just see which opens up first. Then we're gonna end up with every camp having a list of 100 people with people freely logging in and out. It'd be a mess. I'm not sure what the answer is.

Wow, y'all sure know how to take things to interesting places!

Originally Posted by Kika Maslyaka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only way to enforce the list in this case is to have it going LIVE and recorded on these very forums in real time.

No, this is not true. I can get how you'd imagine it is, but that's only because you're imagining an absolute/perfect system. However, you don't need such a system, and of course everyone (even Kika I'd imagine) should laugh at the insanity of everyone having to leave the game and post on the forum just to take an in-game camp.

This isn't to say that Teppler's wrong about:

Originally Posted by Teppler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I’m holding a camp and there’s a list. Suddenly my friend logs on and wants to go next. I pull the plug on my connection. Suddenly list is gone and I can say I had connection problems. Camp becomes open. Friend is right there. The list was cheated and you’ll never prove it.

But what he is wrong about is being able pull that shit repeatedly. Sure the first time you pull it, even if someone petitions you can claim it was a legit ... but the 2nd time? 3rd time? If you really think you can pull such shit forever, you're basically calling Sirken an idiot.

You see, we already have these advanced rule enforcement systems known as "GMs". They're capable of handling a wide variety of bad player behavior, and it's ok if they don't catch all of it 100% of the time: as long as they can catch most it will discourage most people from cheating, and we'll all get to play on a cheat-free server most of the time. If Bob the camp cheater pulls something shady to hand a camp off to his friend it might work once or twice, but when it doesn't work and he gets banned ... problem solved!

TLDR; We don't need some crazy out-of-game camp tracking system. We also don't just need to throw up our hands and say "but someone could /q, no list system is enforceable!" Simple, logical rules, enforced by intelligent human GMs, have been responsible for all of the rest of the fairness on this server (99% of the game to be honest). That's all we need here.

P.S. Or MAYBE the GMs just need a little more tooling to expose more information to them and help them make better rulings. On that note I've offered to help build such tools for the staff, but since they haven't taken me up on the idea it seems the staff already has everything they need.

[Teppler]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But what he is wrong about is being able pull that shit repeatedly. Sure the first time you pull it, even if someone petitions you can claim it was a legit ... but the 2nd time? 3rd time? If you really think you can pull such shit forever, you're basically calling Sirken an idiot.

One of the worst things an admin can do is start banning people who aren't actually doing anything wrong.

What if someone legitimately has a shitty shaky connection? Is he required to tell people it might blow out at any moment? What if he doesn't tell the list it can blow at any moment but he tells his friend and his friends sticks around.

Do you think this is easy to police?

What if someone is a constant menace to rule lists but legitimately has connection issues? What would you do?

[Wonkie]

I posit you the Eternal Question, "What if?"

the status quo is unchanged. I have won the debate.

[Razdeline]

Originally Posted by Hotel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Right.... If only you guys had idols you would compete in ToV.

And if idols didn't exist, ToV would be a fair place? You really don't think guilds that spend all their time camping idol camp won't do other things to get mobs to ent?

We should just rotate ToV so ALS and other guilds that don't bother doing anything in ToV can get the experience they deserve.

Yeah pretty sure I didn't mention any of that other stuff you're tinfoiling on about. My problems are with idols and the myriad of problems they cause, and the dependency people have on them that don't want to spend the time clearing or dealing with the environment in a more natural way. Competition and all of it's fairness/unfairness can and should continue on.

[Not_Mikeo]

Wow, the greatest takeaway from this thread is how much time Loramin spends trying to express to people how smart he thinks he is.