PvP Thread, Balancing issues / Parsing / Resists / Known issues.

[Salty]

Originally Posted by Bombfist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not much more i can test without input on what is actually needed/wanted.

We have a coder in Null, interested in this project, who has all of the source from box 2.0, where alot of the community agree the resists were close to what people want.

Null is probably the best coder vz/tz ever saw, and alot will agree it's nice to have his interest in things, we will just have to see where things progress from here.

Null did good work

[Bombfist]

Originally Posted by wehrmacht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bullshit, put up a poll about it.

"What resists would you rather have"

1) Resist root 99% of the time with 100-120 MR like normal EQ live during this era but different resists for damage spells

or

2) Resist root 52% of the time with 125MR like TZVZ

Those aren't the resists numbers from 2.0, stop being a moron, the rest of the world has discovered that talking to you is pointless, leave the thread.

I'm talking to coders, testing code and talking to null about server possibility's, all you do is rant and rave about root.

[wehrmacht]

Originally Posted by Bombfist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Those aren't the resists numbers from 2.0, stop being a moron, the rest of the world has discovered that talking to you is pointless, leave the thread.

I'm talking to coders, testing code and talking to null about server possibility's, all you do is rant and rave about root.

This is so stupid it hurts. Repeat after me, TZVZ was a failed server. It's population was like 50-100, it only hit 300 after Salty mass zerg recruited by sending out electronic robo calls. If EQ classic PvP was done normally with small adjustments here and there, you could easily have 500-1000 people but not with TZVZ rules and resists.

You can give 0 explanation whatsoever for why you think crowd control spells should land. 10 out of 14 classes get them. All 3 hybrids that get them are already overpowered for PvP on EQ live. Necros and wizards kill people easily as well. Shaman casts -45 resist malo and 2k+ poison dot, that doesn't look underpowered to me.

What game mechanic needs to be changed that is solved by having 10 classes casting crowd control spells? You can't even name what the hell it is. It doesn't affect casters that much since they can just spam gate if they get rooted and see a zerg coming to kill them. All this stupid change does is make all melees free kills anytime someone wants to zerg rush them spamming root.

There is 0 reason to choose a pure melee at character select screen unless you plan on having a bunch of casters standing around to babysit you the entire time you're logged in with resists like that. The only time I ever saw you in game, you were zerg rushing with like 6 other people and attacking solo nakeds in town then got banned. You were a horrible player on TZVZ and on SZ. Why would anyone listen to someone who's idea of PvP is 7 fully geared people attacking nakeds in town. I played every single day and that's the ONLY time I saw you in game lol. God this is pitiful.

[Bombfist]

Originally Posted by wehrmacht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is so stupid it hurts. Repeat after me, TZVZ was the place i continually got stomped and now choose to whine about it. It's population was like 50-100, it only hit 300 after Salty mass zerg recruited by sending out electronic robo calls, we zerged it pretty hard, the guild i was in, <fish bait> would have succeeded if i didn't constantly get rooted. If EQ classic PvP was done normally with small adjustments here and there, you could easily have 500-1000 people but not with TZVZ rules and resists.

You keep posting numbers that you've tested on a server that should be used as a comparison to find the right resist checks, and you mention code from vz/tz 2.0 that i cross referenced like a retard and called it the same thing to raise a poll about. 10 out of 14 classes get them. All 3 hybrids that get them are already overpowered for PvP on EQ live. Necros and wizards kill people easily as well. Shaman casts -45 resist malo and 2k+ poison dot, that doesn't look underpowered to me.

I really hate getting rooted, I'm going to fight to the ends of norrath to stop getting rooted. STOP ROOTING ME.

Fixed*

[Aerist]

Originally Posted by wehrmacht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is so stupid it hurts. Repeat after me, TZVZ was a failed server. It's population was like 50-100, it only hit 300 after Salty mass zerg recruited by sending out electronic robo calls. If EQ classic PvP was done normally with small adjustments here and there, you could easily have 500-1000 people but not with TZVZ rules and resists.

You can give 0 explanation whatsoever for why you think crowd control spells should land. 10 out of 14 classes get them. All 3 hybrids that get them are already overpowered for PvP on EQ live. Necros and wizards kill people easily as well. Shaman casts -45 resist malo and 2k+ poison dot, that doesn't look underpowered to me.

What game mechanic needs to be changed that is solved by having 10 classes casting crowd control spells? You can't even name what the hell it is.

Seriously Wehrmact, while I totally get where you are coming from with the wanting it to be more like live, the fact that you just randomly spill out things that have no relevance does us no good for this new server. You didn't even play when Null coding the box, so you don't know that it actually was CLOSER to what you want than what Voidd did.

I DO agree that snare/stun/root's should be hard to land, but they SHOULD have a chance, after debuff classes do their job, IE Tash and Malo.

Your brief few months playing with Fish Bait V Heresy doesn't quite make you an expert on the vz/tz box. Yeah it didn't have a lot of players, so lets focus on getting it right instead of just saying "BLAME HERESY VZTZ WAS BAD MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY"....btw hi mippo

[wehrmacht]

Originally Posted by Aerist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

BAD MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY

I think you got it backwards pal. I said 5 billion times, everything should be like normal EQ live unless you can actually give a legitimate reason for why something should be changed and bombfist has not done so.

When you say something should be changed but give no reason why, it's the equivalent of saying: "It would be pretty cool if all the characters were walking around naked with 4 penises, we can get null to code it"

[Aerist]

I understand what you're saying, but you're doing the same thing he is doing. Pointing out that if it was close to live we'd have a higher population with no proof at all. You can't use anything as a real reference considering there is no other emu pvp server around.

We're just trying to work SOMETHING out, everything is up for debate, but just constantly trashing the VZTZ community won't get us anywhere. There are things we def need to fix, and its gonna require BETA testing mainly.

WTB Rogean

[Bombfist]

The 2.0 code had much higher root resist rate aerist, but wehrmact seems to have some sort of reading comprehension failure.

I play a melee, all the tests i've done etc were up for discussion by people of sound mind, constantly ranting about wanting root to have 100% resist with 125MR is pretty useless, wehrmact seems to think he is the voice for the entire community yet i sit in aim talking to 20-30 of the people who want this server to happen discussing these things, testing these things and try to find a point of discussion, it's pretty difficult to discuss anything with somebody who underlines in every single post that he wants root to resist 100% or the server is bad...

As i've posted many times, but again wehrmact ignores most of the post if i don't reply with "Good idea, 100% resist to root" this is a test thread, about discussing and changing the resist code so it isn't the same as vz/tz right now.

The current vz/tz resist code seems to point most resists at the exact same file, the same resist for an MR nuke is the same for a snare / root. As per 2.0, null had things working pretty nicely, and already 4 people? posted about the changes null making being good ones, but in comes white knight wehrmact,

"DID NULL HAVE 100% RESIST TO ROOT? NO? SCUMBAG"

The fact is, root should have a chance to hit, on a personal level, in my opinion, not wehrmacts i think that people should eat a root 20% of the time with 125MR, the number is incredibly easy to reach in classic, and unless you want each spell recoding through each expansion then it starts to get retarded.

Again, Wehrmact, this isn't even under our control, we don't know the actual plans of what the team here are planning even if they are planning an EQ pvp server, if they want it live like, then indeed root will resist to your specifications, the fact is i believe (this was polled) that people want a classic server, that is as balanced as possible.

I don't want this server like the recent vz/tz, it was terrible, that's why i'm putting in effort to show how the resists were there and get the communitys opinion on how it should actually be, all you're doing is posting your sole opinion on what you want.

The coding for a proposed new server might include a merger of some of the old VZ/TZ resist code from 2.0, which we must assume wehrmact is again an expert on, Null is ready to work on the resists and AC etc but again we still don't know what's happening.

think you got it backwards pal. I said 5 billion times, everything should be like normal EQ live unless you can actually give a legitimate reason for why something should be changed and bombfist has not done so.

When you say something should be changed but give no reason why, it's the equivalent of saying: "It would be pretty cool if all the characters were walking around naked with 4 penises, we can get null to code it"

You actually need reasons why some of the retarded terribad things that happened on live need changing, you're a moron, they were changed ON LIVE, because they were STUPID. I'm not going to go through every single change with you and why they were changed, because if you're too dumb to wonder why bards and enchanters couldn't make pets poof any more then there is 0 hope.

Again, to enter some thick skulls if it's atall possible;

ALL OF MY DATA IS FOR CROSS REFERENCE, AND INFORMATION ON THE LAST EMU PVP SERVER.

we do not know what the devs are going to do with this server, all information gathered is, get this, for informational purposes, posted here with backing of the opinion of others, if there are people in the community who feel like they need an explanation for me not agreeing with root landing 100% of the time with 4 items from classic, or level 4 enchanters being able to make pets poof, please feel free to PM me and i'll feel free to not care.

Slam dunk, i'm afk until i wait to speak to a dev in irc, I'm currently speaking with null and waiting for some direction on any possible server, my interest is in a balanced server, not a brain dead classic EQ pvp server, ignoring all changes actually made in future live eq patches because everything was broken, seems counter productive to me, just as actually replying to wehrmact is.

[wehrmacht]

Originally Posted by Bombfist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

it's pretty difficult to discuss anything with somebody who underlines in every single post that he wants root to resist 100% or the server is bad

Once again. It's an EQ Emulator server. It emulates Everquest.

No disrespect to Null or any of the people that worked on it but TZVZ doesn't exist as far as I'm concerned.

If you want crowd control spells to function different from EQ live Kunark/Velious era, post a valid reason why or I can just keep making you look stupid and incompetent over and over in every post since you're unable to list any reason why that game mechanic should be changed for 10 out of 14 classes.

I repeat, nobody gives a flying fuck about TZVZ. Pretend it doesn't exist when you talk to me concerning Everquest balance.

[Bombfist]

http://fooplot.com/index.php?&type0=...min=0&ymax=100

The above URL is a link to the graph plot, if you want to mess with it yourself.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For those too lazy to click.

These are the resists from Vz/Tz 2.0 that null kindly sent me.

The black line is your resist %, 100MR gives you -35% chance to resist
135MR about 50%

The blue and red lines are a random value, regarding damage OR ticks / time.

The red line is the lowest possible partial you can hit for, the blue line the highest, these modifier can be changed for each spell seperately.

These % represent your EFFECTIVE resists, not what is showed on your tool tip, each spell had a modifier.

roots get +15 resist and a 45% partial reduction
stun gets a +25
snare gets +35 and 35% partial
blind gets +75
slow gets -10
malo gets -10
whirl gets +100

So, if we take snare as an example, it's at about 55% chance to resist at 100MR and it will last 45-85% of the duration.

Wehrmact, your views are completely valid if you want to emulate live to your memory, that's not what i want to do, I'm pretty sure you're the only one who wants to do that. This isn't the thread for you buddy, you're trying to tell me and everybody else here how everything should be, but you know 0 about anybodys intentions but your own. I have 0 intention of emulating live everquest pvp, it's terrible, everybody knows that but you seem to want to, that's fine friend.

I'll quote null, and remind you that everyone bitched on live about things being unbalanced.

Box 1.0 everyone bitched, box 2.0 everyone bitched, box 3.0 made standing in the yard with a tree trunk pretending it was a ton po doing flying kicks seem like the promised land on everquest pvp.

This thread is for finding a balance, i don't want to emulate live, vacate my thread.

For those that want to discuss the graph feel free, the modifiers are whats up for discussion basically,

roots get +15 resist and a 45% partial reduction
stun gets a +25
snare gets +35 and 35% partial
blind gets +75
slow gets -10
malo gets -10
whirl gets +100

The partial resists are editable for each nuke and every spell in game, the discussion points are the ones above really, you'll see whirl with a 100 modifier, meaning it's going to get resisted 80% of the time with about 150MR and has an RNG partial timer anywhere between the red and blue lines for your effective resists.