Scout Roll: Can roll for others?

[ErlickBachman]

I feel like I needed to break down your post one-by-one, and offer rebuttals. So here we go:

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

many people want a fair GM-enforced mechanism that prioritizes the people who most deserve the spawn to get it.

Will never happen because there is no way to truly prioritize "who most deserve."

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because of this, any agreement whatsoever has to be opt-in: whether we like it or not that's how this server works. This is why even the roll agreement is tentative: if assholes (not naming any names) don't agree and want to have a click-fight, they can.

These "assholes" are people who keep the spirit of classic alive, which is the key founding element of this server.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

However, as I pointed out in the other thread, there's one other piece here, and that's the fact that the players involved also "opt-in" to helping whoever wins the roll with their fight.

And what stops this from happening during the classic click-fest? Besides the people who feel like they're entitled to loot because they can't EQ as well as other players.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Now if that player isn't doing the fight for themselves, all those other players may not want to help them, and they have a 100% legitimate right not to do so.

There is no definite way to figure out whether or not someone is doing the fight for themselves. So this point is about as sharp as a spoon.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

TLDR: Here's what I suggest. Leave the roll itself as is, not necessarily because it's what anyone wants, but because we can all agree that it's better than a click fest (and we can't agree on anything else). But when it comes time to fight after, everyone helping should demand that the roll winner say who they're doing it for. If they lie and people help them they've violated the server rule on defrauding. But if they are doing it for themselves they get to see the great spirit of this server with free help from kind people.

If you wanted a roll rule, then it should be only ONE roll per GUILD. This was a suggestion by a dude a while back at Scout that didn't make much sense to me at the time, however, based on OP's complaint (amongst other compliants, similar, from other players), this is probably the most logical player agreement that could be made. I say this, because it prevents Asshole Soandso and his band of 10 to 30 dingleberries from tipping the scale in their favor. It would make a fair chance across the board, and people could still assist in the fight. And at that point, if a guild wanted to decide who the loot would go to, they could without other people being salty about it.

Buuuuuuuut, people on this server don't understand logic, so it'll never happen. Therefore, I stay in favor of the click-a-thon.

[Naethyn]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

TLDR: Here's what I suggest. Leave the roll itself as is, not necessarily because it's what anyone wants, but because we can all agree that it's better than a click fest (and we can't agree on anything else). But when it comes time to fight after, everyone helping should demand that the roll winner say who they're doing it for. If they lie and people help them they've violated the server rule on defrauding. But if they are doing it for themselves they get to see the great spirit of this server with free help from kind people.

I'm not saying it's the best possible option, but it seems like the best possible option for our server, with it's limits.

[ErlickBachman]

Originally Posted by Naethyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Come up with that all on your own? :-P

[Naethyn]

Originally Posted by ErlickBachman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Come up with that all on your own? :-P

Are you one of the guys upset that it isn't a click fest? I'm guessing you've deleted all of your texture files to click faster and now that is all for nothing. Hope you have a backup.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by ErlickBachman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is no definite way to figure out whether or not someone is doing the fight for themselves. So this point is about as sharp as a spoon.

But there is, and it doesn't require any new rules to implement. Let me walk you through it:

Bob: I won the roll
Fred: Congrats! I will help you if you are doing this for yourself; are you?
Bob: Yes

Bob: *wins fight with Fred's help, let's Chris loot the corpse.*

Fred /petition Bob just violated server rule 4.9

Originally Posted by 4. Global Server Rules

4.9. You may not defraud other players.
Fraud is defined as falsely representing one's intentions to make a gain at another's expense.

[Maner]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But there is, and it doesn't require any new rules to implement. Let me walk you through it:

Bob: I won the roll
Fred: Congrats! I will help you if you are doing this for yourself; are you?
Bob: Yes

Bob: *wins fight with Fred's help, let's Chris loot the corpse.*

Fred /petition Bob just violated server rule 4.9

But how do you know Fred actually looted it without petitioning and having the GMs look into it?

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Maner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But how do you know Fred actually looted it without petitioning and having the GMs look into it?

(Point of clarification: Chris is Bob's guildmate/customer/whatever; Fred is the guy helping with the fight.)

Well if you (Fred) hang around don't you see Chris physically loot the corpse?

P.S. Re:

Originally Posted by ErlickBachman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Come up with that all on your own? :-P

This forum has a convention where if you agree with someone (but don't have anything in particular to add) you quote their message, or at least part of it, verbatim. If you watch for it now you'll likely notice that many of us longtime posters use this technique, so it's not like Naethyn was being unoriginal, he was just sort of saying "I agree with this" in the way that's part of our forum culture.

[Fasttimes]

Still wtb 4 scouts PM me

[ErlickBachman]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But there is, and it doesn't require any new rules to implement. Let me walk you through it:

Bob: I won the roll
Fred: Congrats! I will help you if you are doing this for yourself; are you?
Bob: Yes

Bob: *wins fight with Fred's help, let's Chris loot the corpse.*

Fred /petition Bob just violated server rule 4.9

So your solution to Scout is to require the GMs, who created and assist this server out of the kindness of their hearts, to babysit more than what they already do now? Pretty sure Rogean & Co. don't want to, nor do they truly give a shit about Scout Charisa and the dramatic bullshit it carries. Which is why its been a click FTE mob since the beginning, as it was on live EQ some nearly 17 years ago.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by ErlickBachman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So your solution to Scout is to require the GMs, who created and assist this server out of the kindness of their hearts, to babysit more than what they already do now? Pretty sure Rogean & Co. don't want to, nor do they truly give a shit about Scout Charisa and the dramatic bullshit it carries. Which is why its been a click FTE mob since the beginning, as it was on live EQ some nearly 17 years ago.

The staff would only be involved in the very rare occasions when one asshole lies to his fellow players in order to get assistance with his fight. This would be an incredibly small minority of all such fights, as most players would either:

A) tell the truth and do the roll for themselves
B) tell the truth and bring a kill force
C) tell the truth and acknowledge that they are doing the roll for someone else, but politely ask for help anyway (I imagine many players still would)

The only time the staff would be involved is if a player lies to his fellow players to get loot ... just like the staff only gets involved in trades when one player lies to another to get loot. Having the defrauding rule doesn't get them involved in the 99.9% of normal/legit trades.