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#61
12-20-2016, 11:57 PM
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For the record, I don't have any doubts that the policy would "work" insofar as how stringently it can be enforced. I don't want to bore everyone by repeating myself, but again - the idea that this policy would go over well on P99 gives way too much credit to the P99 playerbase. If this policy worked on live, and I'm assuming it did to some degree, it was because things were different: it was a different time, with a demographically younger and more serious playerbase, and a faster timeline of events. It was an actual investment to play live EQ, and conversely the GMs were actually compensated. Guides were more readily available, and players were for the most part more interested in experiencing new content rather than locking down camps or zones. The fact that it was a brand new game with undiscovered content alone makes the comparison to our intrinsically flawed facsimile 15 years later completely incoherent. Any policy that existed then should at most be merely taken into consideration rather than transplanted and applied here in a literal sense.
I also take issue with the idea of implementing this policy on P99 because it's presented under the assumption that, because P99 seeks to recreate the classic EverQuest experience, we therefore must take into consideration every facet and every minor detail that was etched into live. The P99 staff would be the first to tell you that this is not how they do things, nor is it how they planned on doing things. There are plenty of things from live, including certain aspects of policy enforcement, that they very consciously chose not to adopt for specific reasons. EverQuest live policy would forbid them from restoring decayed player corpses and reimbursing items. Character name enforcement on live, as demonstrated by a slew of parodical P99 threads, was so broad-brushed and loosely defined that our current CSR staff would have to dedicate most of their time to that alone. By recognizing the difference between swearing and swearing at someone, they're more relaxed about public-channel vulgarity. For obvious reasons, P99 is basically EQ For Adults. There's a certain pretense that one almost has to surrender to when deciding to go in on an emulated EverQuest server as an exercise in childhood nostalgia; something between masochism at worst, and a kind of jovial self-deprecating unseriousness at best. So many things that were enforced during '99 - '01, when a huge percentage of the playerbase consisted of kids and young adolescents, will seem outdated, outmoded, and glaringly anachronistic today. We want our nostalgia trip, and P99 is willing to give it to us, but we have to be able to make fun of ourselves to some extent in order to enjoy it. When people start taking Project 1999 too seriously, that's when the guy who decides to solo camp some god-forsaken mob for six hours at three o'clock in the morning gets harassed by some other guy quoting a newly instated rule that says the spawn must now be rotated lest he incur the wrath of the overworked volunteer staff. Just leave the guy alone. Let him have his camp, go find something else to do, and be thankful you aren't him. I barely remember this rule on live, and I played obsessively from launch day in 1999 until the first day of Luclin. It definitely helped to maintain a respectful atmosphere in game, but it was hugely contingent upon GM arbitration - if a guide wasn't able to step into a dispute within minutes of a petition, nothing would get resolved, and things would escalate to kill-stealing and name-calling and training, just like they would here. Still, it was definitely a deterrent, I have no doubts about that - deterrence is the most crucial part of any law enforcement, and without it there'd be no reason for laws. No one wanted to get guides or GMs involved if it was avoidable, so players took steps to avoid getting into contentious situations - they'd make sure they're not hogging a camp for too long, they'd be more mindful and respectful of other players - they'd treat other players as if, you know, there's an actual person behind the keyboard. That doesn't happen without coercive credibility. If players realize that enforcement is practically nonexistent, they're not going to take the rule seriously or even think about changing their behavior, and that new rule will become exploitable and the staff's worst nightmare. And remember, during this era on live players were much more willing to modify their behavior because there was new content to explore - they didn't want to waste their $10 per month arguing with guides over silly camp disputes. For some people on P99, that's the whole point of the game. There's also already a policy in place on P99 to address excessive camping and the corpsing of items, which was mentioned a couple times: Quote:
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Last edited by paulgiamatti; 12-21-2016 at 12:05 AM..
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#62
12-21-2016, 12:11 AM
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https://web.archive.org/web/20010112...age=2&Session=
Another link [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.][You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] | ||
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#63
12-21-2016, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
You make some good points although I don't agree with them all - specifically that adults on this server don't need to be forced to play nice. There are people in game that refuse to give up camps and are camping there 24/7 every day of the week. There are a number of people who want to do their epics who cannot get access to certain pieces because they're permacamped and being sold for up to half a million pp for a single piece. The other thing is the current rules are so far from live that the experience is also very far from live. The requirement to share is one we should all be used to. While I wouldn't go so far as to demand a person let me have some of their mobs I would expect that they would not be camped there 24/7 and that I would be able to get a shot one day. The idea a person instead needs to farm half a million pp for a single epic piece is ludicrous. If you played for 2 hours per day, and earned 500pp per hour it would take you 500 days or close to 1 1/2 years to get that one piece. What imo needs to happen is that some change needs to occur, either a watered down PnP sharing rule (1 item drop per person then you need to give the camp up) or MQ needs to be looked at. | |||
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#64
12-21-2016, 01:42 AM
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People could stop buying MQs? Also offer much much less, making the MQ's no longer worth the time invested. Once something is no longer profitable(time spent vs plat earned) plat farmers stop doing them. I know Jboots have actually gone UP since i joined the server 5 years ago, going from a crappy 4 to 5k up to an easy 7k. If people capped out their offers at 4k to 5k, you'll see fewer people willing to camp that dang AC. Same can be said about any MQ. Buyers agree to lower their offers, making the time put in, no longer worth while. Sadly Ragefire will always be prema camped, and down because of the tempting included CoF, WT bag, and Red Scales. Just make the price tag of doing AC so unfriendly to plat farmers this problem corrects itself.
However the high end raiding, needs massive fixes, and a call for a rotation has been being chanted for months, sadly with the GM's unwillingness, and the top two guilds lack of sharing abilities they never acquired during the course of their lives...that'll never change..,and goes forth the ranting of "brahhh just compete" (Translation: dude, we wanna train you and your guild then take the pixels and what we don't use we sell in EC tunnel). What's so unfitting about this high end raiding is the lack of 1 or 2 evening of slugging your way though ToV or Kael, or sleepers earning armor during the course of that evening. Everything on this server is trained around, trains to train each other, and everyone else, major zone lag issues, all over 1 NPC kill, once that named is down, all goes quiet but only for a moment until next dragon has spawned and is fte'd. This is not raiding, this is called selfishness at its ugliest and worse, its just a shame GM's don't step in and remove this sort of mind set from the server. | ||
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#66
12-21-2016, 02:23 AM
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Quote:
Love it when these type of guys appear, just because I don't enjoy the tracking, the footraces, and living in a false reality with fake people who only want you to do their overnight tracking (bitch work) as they reap the benefits is not my idea of fun. What I do find fun is spending time with my guildies, slugging it out VP, ToV, Sleepers, EXPing in Seb, HS, and any other host of zones. Actually getting to talk with one another, build a friendship or two along the way (something A/A guilds lack greatly). These top end guilds have clicks, and most are not welcome to be a part of them (*Yes even if you do their bitch work). The whole idea of making up new "raid rules" then following that up with "okay, so, now how do we get as close as we possible can to breaking the new rules we made without....actuallllyyyy breaking them!?!?!?!?!?!?!" That frame of mind is very unhealthy, and is dubious behavior to start with...generally speaking however both A guilds already know what that work around is going to be (which again is sad in itself.). This still doesn't change my mind set of only seeing my guildies for 3 mins to kill a dragon then everyone log outs until the next dragon. That's like going to church on Easter and Christmas, there's majority of the people there you have no clue who they are, and you'll wish them a marry day and only see them again at the next big event. Very unfriendly atmosphere. | |||
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Last edited by botrainer; 12-21-2016 at 02:25 AM..
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#67
12-21-2016, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
"I want to point out was the common occurences that PNP allows, that simply is abusing the policy to your advantage. Here is what happened to one of my groups this last weekend. My guild decides that we want to Hunt the Froglok King in Liveside, LGUK. WE're preparing for a naggy raid, and need some more crowns. We have a full group of level 40-51. We have no cleric, so if one of us dies, they have to make their way back to the King "the hard way". Ok..After a very rigorous struggle, involving 2 deaths, backtracking back through the minotaur mess to retrive them, and trying to keep the King/Gargoyle/Water Ele and adajacent rooms broke to allow free travel, we finally get all 6 guys in the king room, with the room well broken. About this time, two level 52 casters, one a mage, the other a necro, come into the room. They EACH demand a fair turn at the King Spawn. We tell them that when we're finished, they are welcome to it. Of course, the DEMAND that they each get their share. This would leave my full group of 6, with one in 3 King spawns. I told them, "no way". So guess what, they invoke PNP, call a GM who was there in minutes, and the GM forces my full group to share with EACH of them. Wonderful, so my full group gets 1 in 3 king spawns, and they get one each. What a load. Ok. We have to do it. So my group takes it's spawn when it comes, and then proceeds to take the Boks and other spawns in the room also. The next spawns is the Necro's. Well, the King pops and we back off. So the necro is fighting the King with his pet, and woah, here comes the Tactician. The Tactician attacks the Necro and my group just watches. Afterall, my group has to handle these multiple spawns, so should the necro when it's his turn I guess. Well, the Mage jumps in to help the necro, but the necro takes some quick damage, and dies. I get all sorts of profanity and rude comments from the Necro for allowing him to lose XP and not helping him. Next thing I know, here's the GM. The GM tells my group now that we MUST leave, since we didn't help the Necro and he lost XP. In other words, the Necro and Mage could NOT break the spawn, they couldn't even hold it singlely. They just wanted to reap the rewards of a broken spawn, and when we didn't help them, we were ORDERED to leave the spawn by the GM. You ask me if PNP is broke. Yes, there is no doubt in my that it is." I have no doubt it was enforced. Who the hell wants this on P99? | |||
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#68
12-21-2016, 08:16 AM
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^ lol
If it ever was enforced it was for a brief period and on select servers. Nothing like this ever occurred on any of the servers I played on and like ordinary camp etiquette, had this been an actual thing it would have worked it's way into player culture and already be a thing here. It's silly ^^ Whether it is genuine or not is largely irrelevant. Nilbog/Rogean simply will not demean their project with this sort of retardation. I could see Sirken possibly doing it for the lulz though :3
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<Millenial Snowfkake Utopia>
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#70
12-21-2016, 03:08 PM
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Its a good thing that people who actually run p99 know the difference between a random thread found on the waybackmachine and evidence.
As for all the ad hominems you throw at folks who disagree with you, you can keep at them. It doesn't matter to me so long as your claims go ignored by the server staff. You see, they are one's you are really calling idiots, children, pixel clutch-ers, Trump protesters...the one's responding to you on the forums are only the ones who try (for some reason) to engage with you; the devs just ignore you. | ||
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