the server, loot and the way things are

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Any guild that can muster up 25 people can kill any god/dragon/mini with the proper number of malachites.

FIFY.

tee hee! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] JK!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Grod]

Originally Posted by Acillatem [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If guilds monopolize the top - they get too big. And then they implode (see Dozekar/Blackwater/Inglorious Basterds). It happened on Live all the time.

You WILL eventually close your doors for recruitment, at which point if people don't have anywhere to go or anything to do, the future for your own guild gets bleaker and bleaker. Suddenly you hafta re-gear every 3 months a new wave of recruits becuz you never gave anyone else the opportunity to do anything. You slow yourself down in the long run.

You cut your own wrists by cutting off everyone else.

I don't know anything about the raiding structure on this server because I haven't raided on here yet (will be looking for a raiding guild soon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] ) but I was in one of the guilds "monopolizing" the top on live and just wanted to point out a few things from the other side on this. First off, the majority of guild implosions were internal issues and had nothing to do with guild progression in top tier guilds. Your implying that these guilds imploded because of their dominant status on the server which is definitely not the case as there are a lot of those original guilds that stayed together and still play together in other games.

Secondly, recruitment is almost never an issue because as the top guild you get your pick of the server for the most part(even cross-server in some games and in later Everquest expansions). When guilds close off recruitment it's because they don't need anybody else at that time but most guilds never fully cut off recruitment and the doors are open for exceptional applicants. Furthermore, the few people that do join are either 1) already geared or 2) they gear up pretty quickly because the majority of people who have been farming the content already have the common / lesser drops. It was actually a running joke in our guild because would join us and get decked out in the best gear in their first 1-2 months of joining because they are getting all the items that normally rot. It never slowed us down because 1) new recruits were never playing any important roles on raids and they were getting geared up really quickly anyway and 2) recruitment was always available. You'd be surprised how many people from the 2nd and 3rd best guilds on the server would quickly jump ship given the opportunity.

Basically, monopolizing the loot is not a "bad thing" for guilds (regarding that top guild's future progression) and even moreso, just to point out, if you look at the guilds who were competing for world firsts back in original EQ none of them were coming from loot rotation servers so the argument that it actually hinders the guild is nonsense because it doesn't in any way.

Some people play Everquest for the community and working towards a common goal is a big deal but you also have to understand that some people play for the competition it provides, and some people like being able to be the best and control their fate. Some guilds killed content they didn't need the loot from simply so the other guilds couldn't get the loot and their guild would be in a better position to maintain their top guild status on new content. That was planned and done intentionally by many guilds.

I definitely care more about the community this time around as opposed to how I played on live but I do understand why guilds would be opposed to a loot rotation and I'd rather not be a part of one because it takes a lot of competition off of the server.

[Taluvill]

What I think a lot of you Pro-Rotation people seem to think is that a lot of people want to share their pie with everyone.

I would imagine, if there was a rotation with IB/Div/DA, there would be some good favor to it. This solution also puts every guild under them at a reduced class and makes them feeder guilds for the "Big 3" and ruins the fun for anyone not in those guilds/potential new guilds.

If you force the big three to share with say, 8 guilds, which I can EASILY see happening with a widespread rotation, why would any of these 3 agree to it? they can all get raid mobs when they feel like it and get more than 1 every two weeks. They could have 3-5 every week, potentially. They won't agree to it, and it's as others have said, big guilds will be cockblocking, for lack of a better term, old type content to gear up newer members, pad their guild bank, and bring new recruits up to gear(ish) the moment they join and earn their favor.

A rotation, as much as you want it, will not work on the sole fact that there are too many people who have done this, and too many people that would jump at the chance to monopolize the server and raid frequently.

[t0lkien]

The only content mess I ever really experienced was Velious/Luclin. Even though I hated the dirty play and brutish tactics of so many of the guilds, nothing - and I mean nothing - has ever matched the exhilaration of mobilizing an entire guild, prepping on the run, and hitting a target before other guilds could do so. No other game has ever created that sort of tension and excitement for me. A server rotation does away with that.

You have to take the good with the bad. And that sort of good only comes when there's the possibility of bad behaviour. It's worth putting up with the crap just to keep that sort of dynamic IMO i.e. server rotations create less fun, not more.

[Skope]

Originally Posted by Taluvill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A rotation, as much as you want it, will not work on the sole fact that there are too many people who have done this, and too many people that would jump at the chance to monopolize the server and raid frequently.

I think that's probably the main reason why rotation just wouldn't work. Generally rotations are set in place early during an expansion/creation when there are only but a couple guilds who can down said targets. A few months down the line you start to get other guilds trying to flex their muscles and make a name for themselves. Right now we have many guilds who can down gods/dragons and perhaps too many for a rotation unless it is very limited towards the "bottom" guilds. I do agree that perhaps it's not the right time to enact a rotation, but the I honestly can't think of a single reason why we still have variance. variance was put in place to stop people from poopsocking (and it still didn't work) and for some reason it's still here. Dump the variance and if guild A wants to tangle with the big boys then get in there and buff up =P

[Noser]

I would rather see some spawn tweakage solutions. For example, randomly resetting all the bosses one day a week like what happened a week or two ago. Sure it's not classic but either is spawn variance. All i'm sayin' is that we should start thinkin' outside the bun here folks!

[Wrei]

Originally Posted by Taluvill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Two things to say:

First, there is enough of a hardcore population here that a rotation would probably net more loss than you would gain in amount of players on this server. Or you would have people down GM throats 24/7 (See: Inglorious Basterds, Pre-Plane of Hate release. See Divinity, Pre Plane of hate release.) <---[Edit] Probably not as much divinity, but the rotation included PoFear gear clearing, and they wanted theirs, and broke into fear just before the hate release. It also wasn't a secret that they were looking to raid. Point is, its not easy on the gm's for a rotation because without a concrete way to get in, and without anyone to police that concrete way of getting in, you hold other guilds out. Why join <new guild A> when Ib, Divinity, and DA are eating up the planes and no one else can get in?

Edit2: If its not GM enforced, there will be no order, especially when Velious releases, or when new keys for VP are acquired. And the GM's want nothing to do with policing our raiding system atm.

Second: Wait for kunark, content will open up. Trust me. two or even three guilds cannot be at the same pl;aces at once while trying to level and cockblock the other guilds out of gear to keep them down. Targets, not just old world bosses, will free up. Just position yourselves in good spots, and your gtg.

Third: didn't think there would be a third, but if you really want a shot at bosses, plana few nights a week for people to be available, and just watch the trackers. Chances are, if there is a tracker in zone, a mob is imminent or semi-imminent. Put your raid force their and be available for a few hours. Then it's best of luck to you and your skilled players.

Edit3: there really isnt any poopsocking going on, just guilds that can kill shit and they arew killing it, and a small tracking force that helps and rotates in. Fun gear clears when spots to clear are available.

I can't believe I'm agreeing with all your points Taluvil... this is monumental. Eq was never a "fair" game. Sure, you may have had a cute rotation on Karana but you had a Darwinian evolution on all other servers for the most part. Everyone has a different playtime, we all attach different level of importance towards the raiding aspect of this game. If you want a casual guild to get equal share, why not push for instancing the bosses? Seriously. That's how MMO evolved atm with instancing. The argument of casual gamers deserving a shot at end game content at their own pace is what created instancing.

I enjoy raiding because of the competition, I like the race, I like putting something on the line (if we fuck up they get the kill). I also like not wasting my time with people who don't understand that their action causes other people to waste their time. I don't want to tell people how to play. If you have fun fucking around for 9 hours clearing a plane then go for it. I personally would like to do it as fast as possible because really I got better shit to do in RL. People are not only lazy they are also greedy. Rotation is not practical to implement. Guilds will be splitting up to form mini guilds your 10 guild list will soon evolve to 20, then to 30. So what on a 7 day mob you'll need to wait 210 days to get a 2nd shot at the same boss eventually? So instead of pushing for everyone to be miserable (hardcore and casual) if you're serious about keeping it "fair" then the way to go is for every guild to have their own boss whenever they want and NOT about rotating.

Problem with that is it isn't classic EQ, the GM's have made it more than clear that they aren't interested in policing or implementing anything like that. So instead of arguing about what's rightfully yours, why not focus all that energy towards something more productive. Either join a raiding guild that will allow you to experience such content or make a guild to get you there. No one is preventing you to kill Vox or Naggy, the rules are first to engage. Find other people to mobilize and compete or join a guild that's doing so atm. When Kunark comes out, older content will free up and competition will become less of an issue. Between farming the 9839829 items in kunark, finishing your epic, outdoor bosses + end game content etc.. There's plenty of things to do even before the old world bosses.

[Ponden]

Originally Posted by Acillatem [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If guilds monopolize the top - they get too big. And then they implode (see Dozekar/Blackwater/Inglorious Basterds). It happened on Live all the time.

False information leads to posts like this. Nobody wants a rotation aside from small guilds that can't mobilize fast enough for big targets or have the discipline to do things like that.

[Dach]

Originally Posted by Ponden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nobody wants a rotation aside from small guilds that can't mobilize fast enough for big targets or have the discipline to do things like that.

It is my understanding that several guild leaders of big guilds are interested in rotating some targets.

You don't presume to speak for them, do you Sir?









.

[Ponden]

Which leaders? The ones that aren't getting the 5 big targets? I won't speak for DA, but I doubt they would give targets to smaller guilds.