Why no palies?

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No good spells til 22? Another reason the SK is better, shit gets good as soon as you hit 9 with disease cloud, then add darkness at 15 <3

Yeah and iirc Paladin doesn't really come into its own until 30 when we get stun. Paladins are late bloomers ^^ A lot of fun after that though.

[valaka]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No good spells til 22? Another reason the SK is better, shit gets good as soon as you hit 9 with disease cloud, then add darkness at 15 <3

Sorry I guess I missed the other reason Sk's are better. The only thing a SK can do better than a paladin is solo (very slowly) and split mobs that cant be pacified. Pally > SK for exp groups.

[Arteker]

Originally Posted by valaka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sorry I guess I missed the other reason Sk's are better. The only thing a SK can do better than a paladin is solo (very slowly) and split mobs that cant be pacified. Pally > SK for exp groups.

i soloed my paladin without twinking to lvl 60 .

paladin is a excellent soloers untill u hit 54 when the sk with snare fear can outperform in term of speed a paladin . wich will depend in root /heal rinse repeat .

paladins solo is very efective inside dungueons, specialy in old antonica , at lvl 30 specialy faster since u will begin to hunt and kill easy caster mobs . pacify line make pulling super easy(unless u a ugly dorf).
at 45 u got the dw helm for free heals reducing ur downtime even more .

[Danth]

If you think of the tank job solely as getting hit and holding opponents' attention, I can see why you'd think of the Shadow Knight as better. Both classes can generate similar threat but the SK can do so for lower mana expenditure. Critically, the Shadow Knight also does so while giving up fewer of its strengths. A mana-stingy Shadow Knight might lifetap a little less often. Big deal. A mana-stingy Paladin won't be chain-stunning or healing or doing the other things that make the class stand out (and, indeed, will feel basically like a SK who can't feign or invis or snare). The Shadow Knight shines in that scenario; conversely the Warrior isn't really a tank at all in such groups because by the time he finally gets aggro, the target's already dead and folks are switching to the next one and it's the Shaman doing most of the tanking.

Paladins have a more deliberate play style, and tend to gain value as the rest of their group gets worse (either due to lazy groupmates, or ineptitude, or imperfect group composition). If the Paladin has a tougher time keeping up in the above group, at least he can; the Shadow Knight can't do much of anything at all to save an Enchanter who's at 20% life because the Cleric was tabbed out reading Reddit instead of actually healing. The Shadow Knight certainly can't provide any buffs when the group has to settle for a Druid healer instead of a Cleric, and has some difficulty with interrupting caster or healer opponents (it can, but snare/fear requires a lot of setup time and isn't always practical in some tight spaces). Nor can the SK help out all that well with crowd control in groups that lack a mezzer or do much to reduce damage intake when the slower's too lazy to bother actually slowing anything and the healer's struggling for mana. The Paladin's the more complete defensive package by virtue of its greater ability to cover for such contingencies.

The Shadow Knight maintains marginally higher popularity simply because it solos better and has (arguably) a slightly better raid role. Look at the top four classes--Druids, Necromancers, and Shamans are all solo powerhouses, and Monks are usually regarded as the best solo'er of the pure melee types. The middle rankings are full of classes that don't solo well but are great on raids, such as Warriors and Clerics. The group-centric Rangers and Paladins tend to stay down at the bottom. Perhaps that's a bit strange for a group-centric game, but P99 is what it is.

Danth

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If the Paladin has a tougher time keeping up in the above group, at least he can; the Shadow Knight can't do much of anything at all to save an Enchanter who's at 20% life because the Cleric was tabbed out reading Reddit instead of actually healing.

Darkness and fear, and the enchanter won't have aggro anyway if you're shadow vortexing while that mob was mezzed.

The Shadow Knight certainly can't provide any buffs when the group has to settle for a Druid healer instead of a Cleric, and has some difficulty with interrupting caster or healer opponents (it can, but snare/fear requires a lot of setup time and isn't always practical in some tight spaces).

SLN/Natureskin is no bad substitute, l2druid.

Take casters first unless the enchanter wants to ToT...if its that bad you just ask your monk/other melees to get on the same side. Casters have no HP, and as a rogue I've regularly pushed from the front and switched briefly to backstab when it pops.

Nor can the SK help out all that well with crowd control in groups that lack a mezzer

Wave of Enfeeblement, shadow vortex as a follow up...if the group doesn't have someone willing to root then you're in a bad group anyway.

or do much to reduce damage intake when the slower's too lazy to bother actually slowing anything and the healer's struggling for mana.

Chain lifetapping isn't a stun, but it can save a wipe.

The Shadow Knight maintains marginally higher popularity simply because it solos better and has (arguably) a slightly better raid role.

Ask yourself why that is.



next

[Danth]

Swish, I play both classes extensively. So do others in this thread. You don't. My Shadow Knight has been my main on P99 for the past four years or so. It's been level 60 for most of that. Yours never even made 60 at all. Some of what you're saying seems either mistaken or based on pride; you come across as an enthusiastic class partisan who "discovered" the SK. I'm glad for your fun, but don't let your enthusiasm cloud your rationality.

A) "SLN/Natureskin is no bad substitute, l2druid."

Eh? Most Paladin buff lines stack with Druid and Shaman buffs. Don't even try telling me the puller or Enchanter won't appreciate having hundreds extra hit points.

B) "Darkness and fear, and the enchanter won't have aggro anyway if you're shadow vortexing while that mob was mezzed."

Darkness and fear takes too long in that situation. 20% low HP aggro overrules all other aggro, and you know full well that bad things happen sometimes--unless you're going to claim that nobody has ever died in your groups, a claim that'll get you laughed at if you try to make it.

C) "if the group doesn't have someone willing to root then you're in a bad group anyway."

Well yes--that's the point. Do you only join optimal, perfectly balanced groups full of motivated players who never go AFK and always pay 100% attention? This is the real world, not theorycraftland. Some groups suck.

D) "Chain lifetapping isn't a stun, but it can save a wipe."

Rarely, yes, I've done so myself, but I'm not sure if you have a point there. I've saved a lot more wipes on my Paladin. The SK's much better at helping recover once wipes occur, though.

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Saying the Paladin's the better group tank as a whole doesn't mean it's always better 100% of the time. Much of the time they're basically equal. There are even some situations where the Shadow Knight's the better choice. I have an easier time on my SK in really-fast-paced groups. It can serve double-duty as a feign puller when necessary (I was in such a group just last night). It tends to be favored in some camps due to snare.

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Pharmakos--Paladin/Enchanter is a strong duo. I don't mention it simply because it's a little one-sided; the Enchanter would nearly always favor having a Cleric instead. Likewise the Necromancer will usually favor having someone else first as well. Conversely, Monk Shaman and Shadow Knight/Shaman are both strong duos and I know quite a few Shamans who prefer the latter.

Danth

[Vexenu]

Paladins are amazing group tanks. They're up there with Bards and Enchanters in terms of how much they can singlehandedly carry a group through skillful play. Huge skill ceiling on the class, and very dependent on the player's attention to detail. People don't appreciate how ridiculously powerful root and stun are, especially on a tank. You just completely shut down caster mobs with stun, while root allows you total control over mob positioning and makes managing adds/mutiple pulls/group caster agro almost painless. Heals, lulls, rez, LoH and Cleric buffs are just icing on the cake.

The reason no one plays them is because they really aren't good for anything else besides group tanking. They're one of the worst solo classes, one of the worst raid classes, one of the worst plat-farming classes and one of the worst duo/trio classes. When I play my Paladin and do anything besides tank in a dungeon group I feel like a fish out of water. But when I am tanking for a dungeon group, I feel almost godlike. They're just extremely specialized.

[pharmakos]

i was going to say paladins do pretty well in duos, but then i realized the best classes they duo with are also the best solo classes, lol.

but yeah, paladin + enchanter and paladin + necromancer are tight! especially paladin + necromancer can easily tackle a lot of dungeon content that neither one would be able to manage on their own.

[Kennie]

I'm a paladin! Someone sell me a book of scale

[phacemeltar]

I main healed mistmore CE as 39 paladin for 2 hours the other day. group comp was 2x rangers, warrior, sk, enc. the sk refused to help heal. that is all.