Class C loses mobs on every repop?

[Babayaaga]

At some point there will be more guilds in class C and it will be a bit more competitive than it is now. I can see what you're saying, but by having things "left up" for a little while guarantees other up and coming guilds in both tiers opportunities at attempts. We've got some room for growth once again... it's a pretty amazing solution.

TBH... this is a really elegant system considering what it took to get here. That raid.php instant auto-updating page is genius. I don't care if it isn't classic... on some servers certainly, it should have been!

[Elements]

Thanks for being reasonable guys. The point is that if a guild nabs 2 FFA mobs they are done on a repop. They can no longer compete even amongst their own class which is silly for a class intended to be competitive. Perhaps leave the bag limit on class R/ FFA at 2 and remove the bag limit from class C on repops?

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Elements [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for being reasonable guys. The point is that if a guild nabs 2 FFA mobs they are done on a repop. They can no longer compete even amongst their own class which is silly for a class intended to be competitive. Perhaps leave the bag limit on class R/ FFA at 2 and remove the bag limit from class C on repops?

Reason I wouldn't suggest that is it basically allows for one guild to get 12/18 of the spawns (class c x 4, FFA x 2, VP x 6). That would go against the purpose of the original restrictions I think?

Class C should be allowed to exceed the 2 bag limit within their class of mobs but be restricted from FFA mobs if they do so IMO.

[Hitpoint]

Well we keep using this example of 4 FFA mobs and 4 class C mobs. It might be because that's the example I used then I brought up the problem, or it might be because that's how yesterday was. But lets talk about a different example. What if enough mobs spawn late, and enough other mobs spawn early, that we get 6 or 8 class C mobs on a repop? It's unlikely, but possible. In the first example, class C can't kill any FFA mob or they lose a class C mob that is guaranteed them as per the rotation. In the latter example, there is no possible way for us to kill all 8 class C mobs.

Lets take it even further. Summer rolls around, and the server sees a huge dip in numbers. Now FE and IB's rosters have taken a hit, and they can't kill the harder class C mobs by themselves anymore. Or maybe they just choose to raid separately. Whatever the case, if there are 6 class C mobs on a repop we would automatically lose 2 of them from Class C.

My point is, however unlikely, we should strive for a system that does not allow these things to potentially happen. And we shouldn't be forced to split up just to make sure class C mobs get killed, although it is very fun.

Thank you all for keeping this discussion constructive so far.

[Erati]

after we experience a few more rounds of 'sim patch' repops I think the Class C guilds should have enough info to put together some observations in the Raid Discussion forum about what alterations to the bag limit mechanic they would like to see applied to their tier.

I see where you guys are coming from, and it seems some things functioned a little more 'clunky' than had attended however with a system like what was implemented really the only way to work out the kinks is by diving in and trying it out

id say that considering none of this was even a remote thought a month ago to where we are now with the P99 raid website, we have come a long way

[falkun]

But you are choosing to relinquish those mobs, likely because FFA mobs are tastier. You are trading competition within your own tier (going after C-mobs only) for competition amongst the entire server (FFA). If anything, you've likely increased competition by going for FFA mobs over C mobs. If C is worried about losing C mobs to R guilds, then kill your C mobs. FFA mobs are for everyone to compete over, they aren't yours by default. If you decide to go after them first, that's a choice you'll now have to live with.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But you are choosing to relinquish those mobs, likely because FFA mobs are tastier. You are trading competition within your own tier (going after C-mobs only) for competition amongst the entire server (FFA). If anything, you've likely increased competition by going for FFA mobs over C mobs. If C is worried about losing C mobs to R guilds, then kill your C mobs. FFA mobs are for everyone to compete over, they aren't yours by default. If you decide to go after them first, that's a choice you'll now have to live with.

I think this is a pretty reasonable argument in the end, although I would agree with Hitpoint that it isn't really what the Class C guilds thought they were getting into (not that they agreed to anything in the end anyway).

Regardless, I somehow feel like the Ploktor/Loraen plan (1x FFA repop per week that doesn't affect timers, full GM enforced rotation on all 'normal' spawns) was just better. We're already seeing poopsocking and people 'competing' in the R tiers and rotating in the C tiers. I suppose we can just give this a few months and see how it goes and maybe change things up later.

[slappytwotoes]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But you are choosing to relinquish those mobs, likely because FFA mobs are tastier. You are trading competition within your own tier (going after C-mobs only) for competition amongst the entire server (FFA). If anything, you've likely increased competition by going for FFA mobs over C mobs. If C is worried about losing C mobs to R guilds, then kill your C mobs. FFA mobs are for everyone to compete over, they aren't yours by default. If you decide to go after them first, that's a choice you'll now have to live with.

^ this argument makes me think it was intentional by Rogean.

Even if not, he wanted BDA to move to Tier-C from the beginning and I'll bet he keeps it this way to provide an incentive for at least one R guild to move up to C shortly.

Regardless, everything you said Hitpoint makes a lot of sense and should at least be considered.

[falkun]

If you remove the bag limits within C, then C will just go after FFA mobs before attempting C mobs. This is exemplified by the repops over the last two years where TMO would go after VP only after all the non-VP mobs were downed.

[Elements]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you remove the bag limits within C, then C will just go after FFA mobs before attempting C mobs. This is exemplified by the repops over the last two years where TMO would go after VP only after all the non-VP mobs were downed.

You think if higher priority targets are C and lower are FFA on repops that people are just going to let the C sit there while they go for FFA? no. there is still competition in C. The issue is that if we chose to compete in FFA then the class C mobs are no loner class C they are defaulted to R which is not a 33/33/33 system as was intended by the plan. Having a bag limit within class C is silly.