Questions for Chest/BDA and others

[Hitpoint]

And getting to VS pit without agro is ridiculously easy for most classes.

[quido]

Merkk did you know the chemical name of that drug off the top of your head or did you google it?

Reading wikipedia I see it's used to treat "irritability associated with autism" among other things, so maybe they actually do make a medicine for what Chest has!

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Hitpoint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's easy to say. I don't know what guild you're in, but I'd put money on every single guild on this server training VS pit if they were given the opportunity. There's always 1 idiot.

I'd agree that intent isn't always malicious, and maybe stupidity shouldn't be punished as harshly as a crime of malice, but how do you separate the two? Before judgement day trains were just the cost of doing business in the raid scene, going forward I'd like that to change. Super harsh penalties for a train because someone is stupid doesn't seem right, and neither do soft penalties for trains with malicious intent. Then it turns into proving intent, or who's fault it was anyways, fraps are required, etc etc.

trains are the worst

[Raavak]

Originally Posted by baalzy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ah, I see that. Was a lil behind on the progression of that thread. Kinda thing he should throw it in as it's own thread as something that could be inserted into whatever discussions from there forward.

You're probably right. Like he even said, his idea is lost in all the discussion. It's not a bad idea, but at this point in time I don't see Tier 2-types going for it.

In TMO's own VP farming there have been a couple drives to have tiny raid attempts at Silverwing, and we have attempted a few others on the skinny (20 man Gore or so a month ago?) Its extra fun when you win those. Because of how the guild is organized its hard to get these going. Jeremy's plan helps create that pathway. I also could see more pick-up type raids if his plan were to happen... i.e. trying to kill Sev with 1 warrior, 2 clerics, and 10 rogues, or something.

[Daldolma]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The real problem, Daldoma, is that two raid forces in the same zone just doesn't work.

I don't agree. It worked on Live and it has worked on P99, depending mostly on the raid forces involved.

Unfortunately, the server rules have created an atmosphere where two guilds can't reasonably "compete" for a mob. Variances are so enormous that only 2-3 guilds are even willing to try, and those guilds have entire, fully buffed raid forces logged at the encounter site so that there is no actual encounter. There is a pull, an engage, and then a mindlessly trivial downing of a mob that has been weighed, measured, and dissected 1000 times over because this game is 15 years old. The only "encounter" is FTE. The only competition occurs at character select. Wipes require mind-boggling incompetence.

If guilds are held strictly liable for their trains and precluded from camping raid forces at raid sites, you can have legitimate competition again.

[Raavak]

Originally Posted by Hitpoint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And getting to VS pit without agro is ridiculously easy for most classes.

Yes, but so many people fail. IVU potions are so cheap...

[Hitpoint]

Originally Posted by Raavak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes, but so many people fail. IVU potions are so cheap...

Yea man. I truly don't understand how this happens so often. Even if you get agro, just don't bring it to the raid. Root and camp at box room or something, shit. Or just die.

[quido]

It's generally the little dogs that fuck people.

[Daldolma]

Originally Posted by Hitpoint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's easy to say. I don't know what guild you're in, but I'd put money on every single guild on this server training VS pit if they were given the opportunity. There's always 1 idiot.

As of now, you're absolutely correct. And that's the foundation of Splorf's point about two distinct raid forces not being able to co-exist.

That's because guilds aren't being held liable for their guilds' idiots. I'll use TMO as an example, because they are an easy punching bag. I apologize TMO -- it's not your fault. You reacted to server rules.

But TMO has mass recruited for years now. If you have a pulse, a level 60, and a willingness to log in at unusual hours to kill dragons, they will accept you. Not only will they accept you, but you will be a valuable member. Whether or not you know the mechanics of the game or how to play your character is really a secondary concern. Even an idiot can be CoH'd or follow 20 guildies to a raid site, get buffed, log out, log in, and hit auto attack.

In the very rare event that legitimate "races" to mobs occur (mostly on server repops), these idiots cause problems for other raid forces. They train, they get lost, they thrash around mindlessly. So yes, if we increase the number of actual races to mobs, it can and should be expected that these people would cause problems with regularity. That is why a regime of strict liability is necessary. If a guild is held liable for its own idiots, it doesn't become the server's problem or the CSR's problem. It becomes the guild's problem. If TMO has a few idiots that can't figure out how to get to a spot without training, then TMO either needs to teach them how or boot them out. Otherwise, they're going to be eating raid suspensions.

You can pretend that this would result in unending trains, but it wouldn't. TMO isn't stupid. They're not going to keep eating raid suspensions. If this server has shown anything, it's that guilds will adapt to changing raid rules.

[Raavak]

Originally Posted by Hitpoint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yea man. I truly don't understand how this happens so often. Even if you get agro, just don't bring it to the raid. Root and camp at box room or something, shit. Or just die.

Sometimes I swear people go brain dead during stressful raids. I've seen good players do some really bone headed things in these situations.