R99 - 'Improving' Spell Casting

[Nizzarr]

I want a classic system.

We know what were into with a classic system, we've seen it before.

I'll do the rundown of every classes strenght and weakness in a classic system.

Warriors: Shitty when not geared, unstoppable when geared. They have no way of quickly killing people but will dish out good damage. Do not waste time nuking a warrior in pvp.

Rogues: Shitty when not geared, will kill you very quickly when geared. Doesnt have a lot of hitpoints, a couple DOTs and 2-3 lures will take care of them. Must be killed quickly or lose the battle.

Monks: Very shitty when not geared, juggernauts when geared. Big 2h damage and mend makes it you dont wanna fight them at any zone lines. Tough fight for any casters, will get dominated by any good necros or wizards outdoor.

Wizards: Your lures are very deadly, lands for full everytime. You can sunstrike/ice spear malo'ed targets very efficiently. Have a couple of escape mechanism and good DPS to assist train targets.

Druids: Winged death is your deadliest spell, cast it often and on every target in mass pvp. Your thorns should take care of rogues and other melees pretty well. Support healer role more than anything.

Shamans: Malo is your greatest asset, use it well and use it often. Torpor is a beast in a classic resist situation. Don't bother casting poisons dots if people are levitated, use your unresistable disease debuff and go for poxxes. Your ice nukes will land on maloed targets

Necromancers: Caster god of pvp, unkillable 1on1 by any classes in the game. Will shit on you indoor or outdoor. Lots of unresistable spells makes this class very hard to play against.

Mages: Your pet is your greatest asset, next to your mala. Mala'ed targets can be nuked with fire bolts or DDs. Dont ever use magic DDs. Will never land. Dispel your rooted/snared pet and kite and fire quick bolts.

Clerics: Got 100 in every resists? you're unkillable. You can't do shit either. Heal yourself and run.

Rangers: Rangers

Shadowknights: Not much here, good finisher and some unresistable lifetaps.

Paladins: lvl 9 stun lands a lot even on geared people, use it. Anything else is resisted. very hard to kill good paladins(read: impossibru).

Enchanters: Good crowd control in pvp, rapture always lands and you can easily dazzle tash'd and pillage'd targets. Dont expect your nukes to land on warriors/rogues but you can easily kill monk/druids/shamans/other casters if things go right.

Bards: Selos and resists bitch. Will get better when they have epic and occlusion of sound. Can land chants(maybe) on some lesser geared targets, occlusion with epic removes like 65 all resists and can land much more stuff in velious.

now thats classic resists, anything else will change the summary above.

[Something'Witty]

Originally Posted by Nizzarr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll do the rundown of every classes strenght and weakness in a classic system.

Also a great summary, but I still think a custom resist system somewhere between R99 and classic live is the way to go.

Oh and one thing I forgot to mention in my previous post. I also have the belief that a truly classic resist system would only widen the gear gap, especially in Velious. Players decked out in NToV / ST gear would be untouchable. That may be classic, but I dunno if that results in a fun box. Thoughts?

[ncapatina]

Originally Posted by Nizzarr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Warriors: Shitty when not geared, unstoppable when geared.

Rogues: Shitty when not geared, will kill you very quickly when geared.

Monks: Very shitty when not geared, juggernauts when geared.

Necromancers: Caster god of pvp, unkillable 1on1 by any classes in the game.

Can we get a ranking system of which is better: unstoppable, kill-you-quickly, juggernaut and caster god of pvp?

Joking aside, nice summary.

[NotKringe]

Originally Posted by Nizzarr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I want a classic system.

We know what were into with a classic system, we've seen it before.

I'll do the rundown of every classes strenght and weakness in a classic system.

Warriors: Shitty when not geared, unstoppable when geared. They have no way of quickly killing people but will dish out good damage. Do not waste time nuking a warrior in pvp.

Rogues: Shitty when not geared, will kill you very quickly when geared. Doesnt have a lot of hitpoints, a couple DOTs and 2-3 lures will take care of them. Must be killed quickly or lose the battle.

Monks: Very shitty when not geared, juggernauts when geared. Big 2h damage and mend makes it you dont wanna fight them at any zone lines. Tough fight for any casters, will get dominated by any good necros or wizards outdoor.

Wizards: Your lures are very deadly, lands for full everytime. You can sunstrike/ice spear malo'ed targets very efficiently. Have a couple of escape mechanism and good DPS to assist train targets.

Druids: Winged death is your deadliest spell, cast it often and on every target in mass pvp. Your thorns should take care of rogues and other melees pretty well. Support healer role more than anything.

Shamans: Malo is your greatest asset, use it well and use it often. Torpor is a beast in a classic resist situation. Don't bother casting poisons dots if people are levitated, use your unresistable disease debuff and go for poxxes. Your ice nukes will land on maloed targets

Necromancers: Caster god of pvp, unkillable 1on1 by any classes in the game. Will shit on you indoor or outdoor. Lots of unresistable spells makes this class very hard to play against.

Mages: Your pet is your greatest asset, next to your mala. Mala'ed targets can be nuked with fire bolts or DDs. Dont ever use magic DDs. Will never land. Dispel your rooted/snared pet and kite and fire quick bolts.

Clerics: Got 100 in every resists? you're unkillable. You can't do shit either. Heal yourself and run.

Rangers: Rangers

Shadowknights: Not much here, good finisher and some unresistable lifetaps.

Paladins: lvl 9 stun lands a lot even on geared people, use it. Anything else is resisted. very hard to kill good paladins(read: impossibru).

Enchanters: Good crowd control in pvp, rapture always lands and you can easily dazzle tash'd and pillage'd targets. Dont expect your nukes to land on warriors/rogues but you can easily kill monk/druids/shamans/other casters if things go right.

Bards: Selos and resists bitch. Will get better when they have epic and occlusion of sound. Can land chants(maybe) on some lesser geared targets, occlusion with epic removes like 65 all resists and can land much more stuff in velious.

now thats classic resists, anything else will change the summary above.

Actually a pretty accurate description of the classic rundown.

[Pudge]

Originally Posted by Alecta [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Resists

This is the area of greatest 'greyness' for R99, and so I am sure everyone will hate me no matter what I do.

Prior to this last patch, every PvP spell went through the same resist curve. Certain spell types had often rather large +resist modifiers added to them to shift the curve around, but it was the same curve.

So what we've done is add new 'PvP resist calculations' to the system, where we can tag individual spells (procs / poisons / bard songs) as having a particular resist calculation. Currently, we only have 3 implemented:

1. PvP Unresistible - used in Rapture, Splurt, Lifetaps, etc.
2. PvP Linear with Cap - used in Roots currently, lets us specific a point where the resists hit the 98% cap.
3. Default (Null's curve)

We're planning on adding some more such as :

1. One for rogue blinds - bit harder to resist than normal poison spells since they are 1 shot and require reagents, but with very nerfed partials so you aren't blinded or snared for 2 minutes.
2. One for stuns - perhaps taking into account the level of the spell for your class and level of the caster, so your highest level stun can land occasionally, but spamming 4 low level stuns wont keep people locked down.
3. One for non-lure DDs - which will predominately focus on the partial logic.

Any player feedback on spells or proposed resist functions is welcome.

Also, we've worked out a way to cap resists at 255, which isnt a huge deal at this point, but will be implemented prior to Velious, and should help keep things a little more manageable from a resist point of view.

Just some random thoughts, and in general i like what you state above.

The lowest level stuns worked very well for interrupting spells. The explanation I gathered from live was that they wanted newbs to be able to use their spells and learn their class better before mobs started resisting. However, it had the serendipitous effect of being good pvp interrupt. I think we should emulate this.

In general: I remember resisting a fire nuke naked one time and being very surprised. And outright resisting more shit across the board actually. Spells in general felt more "RNG" than they do here. Here everything is pretty consistent, but back on live sometimes you really could get lucky and resist a nuke. If there's going to be a 2% chance of any spell landing.. how about a balancing 1 or 2% chance that any (except unresistable category) spell can be fully resisted?

Fire/cold: think these were resisted about the same rate, except more ppl loaded fire resist so cold actually hit more.

Magic: magic nukes seemed a bit harder to land on ppl (untashed) but maybe that's because everyone had more mr? dunno. played an enchanter on sullon, they would hit (tashed) regularly. brother also played an enchanter.. was really fun timing out nukes/mez and ppl would rage. it was very reliable mezzing ppl, but then again, im thinking back to early days where ppl probably didnt have much resists.

Also, the 1.5x resist debuff is something I think we should go with here. so -40 mr tash would actually be -60 in pvp.

poison/disease: for some reason i feel like disease was hardest line to resist in the game. and poison was a little easier, but still not easy (but hey i guess none of them were "easy" to resist except root)

Dispels: this is probably a lot of work (and some guess work?), but fixing up the dispels to work on the counter system like poison/disease would be nice and classic!

Oh and FINALLY, like I've mentioned repeatedly over the years... I think resists should scale with the era. Because during classic it's hard to get 150mr, and during velious it's a piece of cake. Make the system scale to the available resists. I believe null may have coded with velious in mind.. and maybe his system would be perfect if we all had 150 mr/fr/cr unbuffed. But that's not what we have in Classic, and for the new teams server it'd be nice if the curves could easily be "bumped" over by 40 resist per expansion (or whatever seems balanced - kunark didn't introduce as much resist gear as velious).

[Bazia]

make it classic




























done













(low level stuns land easier because they dont have a damage component which results an additional resist check)

[Pudge]

Originally Posted by Bazia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

(low level stuns land easier because they dont have a damage component which results an additional resist check)

Level 8 chaotic feedback still worked like a charm for me. It's a 50dd with a 0.0 sec stun http://wiki.project1999.com/Chaotic_Feedback

[Smedy]

Let me ask you Nizzar, how much of this current nihilum necromancer mania is a result of Mysig/Bonuzz being a part of your guild?

Necromancers are good but i think the hype needs to stop somewhere, feelers?

[Bardalicious]

Originally Posted by Syft [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sure would you agree to a wipe first before putting this in because it will fuck everyone but your guild if they add it, can't believe you would rather play with just your guild on server then have competition!

Your asking for classic resist but not everything classic that's what I mean by your agenda your only for something if it helps your toons or guild!

Syft, it's honestly time for you to shut the fuck up.

Stop trying to turn every legitimate thread into your anti-nihilum bullshit.

[Dullah]

Originally Posted by NotKringe [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Actually a pretty accurate description of the classic rundown.

Nizzar's depiction of classic spot on, but it doesn't change the fact that EQ pvp was not optimized for min/maxers sporting full resist gear during kunark, let alone velious. PvP started out great in classic, was good in kunark, and took a dive at the end and worsened thru velious. Theres no reason to approach this the wrong way for the sake of nostalgia when we can make intelligent adjustments that actually provide a more classic pvp feel.

Can tell you right now, having nearly every spell resisted just because a player has circle of winter/summer or a dmf is the fastest way to kill this server for good (thats classic). The server needs to emulate the way pvp worked during this era, and the best way to do it will be to fix resists but still allow nukes/dots to land on players not wearing the appropriate gear. Thats how pvp worked for most of classic because most gear didn't have resists, and few people stacked the resist gear that did exist.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...0&postcount=56