A proposed PvP Teams ruleset: Modified SZ (long)

[Vexenu]

Originally Posted by heartbrand [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Teams won't fix the guild issue, look at blue you have over a thousand players and no one can contest TMO. One guild will still dominate this server welcome to classic eq working as classically intended.

Look, it's quite obvious you either haven't read my proposal in detail, lack the intelligence to understand it, or are so hopelessly immersed in Red that you reflexively shit all over the idea of another server because it would threaten your guild's monopoly of pixels on Red.

My proposal includes the idea of serverwide advance shouts for raid mobs plus a small variance. This would make it much harder for a single guild to dominate PvE, since the entire server would have an hour warning on each boss spawn and would be able to contest for the mob with PvP. Additionally, the spawns couldn't be locked down with respawns precisely timed to the minute as happens with no variance on Red now, which means guilds couldn't reliably lock down spawns during off-peak hours.

[Rec]

I am not buying people not liking Sullon Zek. The server had the biggest pvp names and it was the place to be. It's much more likely that people don't want to give up the dominance they have over the other 50 people on the FFA server

[heartbrand]

here's wut u people dont get. velious is going to take 60 active people @ any one time to down targets, this has been confirmed by current beta testing where 45-55 + people are getting raped currently. all the PVEr's will flock to that guild, there aren't enough people out there to sustain teams.

[heartbrand]

dunno dawg I fought nihilum for over a year in multiple guilds, what's your credentials? I get more pvp in nihilum than I would outside of it atm. If you're not in nihilum you can't kill other people cuz then you piss them off and grief them to nihilum, the servers too small to make fun small pvp guilds cuz no1 to kill really, but if you're in nihilum you can kill every1 else. There's not a lot of nihilum on during the week so it's not as if I detagged that I suddenly would have tons of targets.

At the end of the day I don't get it. People talk about this being a big bad pvp server where pve is dumb and meaningless but yet they seem so concerned about what Nihilum does or does not do, how does them killing bosses affect your enjoyment of pvp server?

[Velus]

Originally Posted by heartbrand [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

dunno dawg I fought nihilum for over a year in multiple guilds, what's your credentials? I get more pvp in nihilum than I would outside of it atm. If you're not in nihilum you can't kill other people cuz then you piss them off and grief them to nihilum, the servers too small to make fun small pvp guilds cuz no1 to kill really, but if you're in nihilum you can kill every1 else. There's not a lot of nihilum on during the week so it's not as if I detagged that I suddenly would have tons of targets.

At the end of the day I don't get it. People talk about this being a big bad pvp server where pve is dumb and meaningless but yet they seem so concerned about what Nihilum does or does not do, how does them killing bosses affect your enjoyment of pvp server?

I have no knowledge of your "history" cause I'm new here, but it sounds like you don't get it because you've never quite experienced anything like what we're trying to describe.

I get the feeling, after having read MANY posts on these forums about R99, that this server is largly split into two categories. There's the PvE, and then there's the PvP. They both interact sometimes, but for the most part they are different... I'm assuming because this server has more strict PnP in place. People go about killing their raid targets (mostly Nihilum from what I understand), and sometimes people will go out looking for PvP.

On SZ the culture and game mentality was a bit different. In a way PvE was everyone's goal, but PvP was the thing you constantly did to prevent your opponents from being able to accomplish PvE. The PvP was an inherent part of PvE, and not at all a separate topic.

Because you always knew exactly who your enemies were, and exactly who your allies were, you never worried about "ticking anyone off".
As you yourself say, you find better fights as a member of Nihilum because you seemingly know exactly who your opponents are (i.e. non-Nihilum members).. well take that same dynamic and apply it to the hard coded teams. You also know exactly who your opponents are. You know who you should attack, and you don't have to stop and consider if you should attack them from fear of being black-listed or simply screwing yourself over in some unforeseen future consequence. You simply have the freedom to attack them without worrying about anything other than them calling some immediate friends in.

I guess all that can really be said now is that you haven't experienced what it was like first hand, and you just kinda have to trust those of us who did.

[runlvlzero]

Originally Posted by Velus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have no knowledge of your "history" cause I'm new here, but it sounds like you don't get it because you've never quite experienced anything like what we're trying to describe.

I get the feeling, after having read MANY posts on these forums about R99, that this server is largly split into two categories. There's the PvE, and then there's the PvP. They both interact sometimes, but for the most part they are different... I'm assuming because this server has more strict PnP in place. People go about killing their raid targets (mostly Nihilum from what I understand), and sometimes people will go out looking for PvP.

On SZ the culture and game mentality was a bit different. In a way PvE was everyone's goal, but PvP was the thing you constantly did to prevent your opponents from being able to accomplish PvE. The PvP was an inherent part of PvE, and not at all a separate topic.

Because you always knew exactly who your enemies were, and exactly who your allies were, you never worried about "ticking anyone off".
As you yourself say, you find better fights as a member of Nihilum because you seemingly know exactly who your opponents are (i.e. non-Nihilum members).. well take that same dynamic and apply it to the hard coded teams. You also know exactly who your opponents are. You know who you should attack, and you don't have to stop and consider if you should attack them from fear of being black-listed or simply screwing yourself over in some unforeseen future consequence. You simply have the freedom to attack them without worrying about anything other than them calling some immediate friends in.

I guess all that can really be said now is that you haven't experienced what it was like first hand, and you just kinda have to trust those of us who did.

Exactamundo.

[runlvlzero]

Originally Posted by heartbrand [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

dunno dawg I fought nihilum for over a year in multiple guilds, what's your credentials? I get more pvp in nihilum than I would outside of it atm. If you're not in nihilum you can't kill other people cuz then you piss them off and grief them to nihilum, the servers too small to make fun small pvp guilds cuz no1 to kill really, but if you're in nihilum you can kill every1 else. There's not a lot of nihilum on during the week so it's not as if I detagged that I suddenly would have tons of targets.

At the end of the day I don't get it. People talk about this being a big bad pvp server where pve is dumb and meaningless but yet they seem so concerned about what Nihilum does or does not do, how does them killing bosses affect your enjoyment of pvp server?

A valid point, touche. But it does not detract from the idea that many want a teams server or want to think about it.

Nor does our wanting a team server revolve around Nihilum. It could be quite possible that pvp here is stale for other reasons and that Nihilum is just a symptom of that staleness.

Yet the both you and Hippo fell into the trap of whether teams was going to affect Nihilum or not. You from the perspective of how Nihilum would effect teams and and Hipp how teams would effect Nihilum.

Originally Posted by Stinkum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Like I said, no one believes you. People are judged on their behavior in game. How many years have you been in Nihilum now? You've had absolutely no problem with not being able to attack 4/5ths of the populace in your range, so your attempt to feign that you suddenly care about this is comical.

Stinkium your rep is fine... I mean HB rep is pretty shot, almost as bad as Gloinzz was before and after apping. In concurance with Stinkum here.

[heartbrand]

cuz a lot of the reasons ive seen given for teams have been in order to avoid one big "zerg" guild

[Vexenu]

It's pretty clear that most of the people in Nihilum are defending the status quo on Red completely out of self-interest. I mean, there's no defensible argument in favor of a server where half the players are in a single guild and have no real competition. They're basically just playing on their own private guild server. Literally every other non-Nihilum could disappear from the server and they'd still probably still have two dozen guys logging on to raid and collect pixels to show off to each other.

I'd have a lot more respect for them if they would come say flat out that they enjoy raiding uncontested and having the occasional PvP steamroll for kicks. Because pretending that they're playing there because they love PvP or competition is completely laughable, and it's obvious they don't even believe that themselves. There's literally nothing more blue than raiding uncontested with half the server in your guild and rolling over unorganized opposition wearing Planes armor while you're fully decked in VP gear.

The funny thing is, I guarantee that 90% of Nihilum would actually have a lot more fun on a Teams server. They've got to be getting bored as fuck with the current state of Red. Yeah, you'd lose your pixels starting over on Teams, but so would everyone from Blue. And once you saw how exciting the Teams environment is, you wouldn't miss them. At least, not if you're the type of EQ player who values friends/fun/PvP/excitement more than simply acquiring pixels. And I think that's actually most players, even the ones currently hoarding pixels on Red.

Red is basically stuck in a rut and will never emerge, because there's zero incentive for any new players to join the server. It's on a long, slow death spiral and will continue that way. It will just be Nihilum raiding, one decent sized "opposition" guild that picks up the scraps, and a handful of PvP guilds of half a dozen people or less who run around randomly trying to pick people off. It will never get any better because no one wants to play on a terrible server like that except Nihilum and a few die hards who have already leveled characters and log on occasionally just to look for fights.

If you actually want a functioning PvP server, and not just a Nihilum raiding sandbox, you should support a new PvP Teams server with these proposed rules.

[Harllo]

As a SZ vet, i would play on a fresh sullon-style server.