Discussion on R99 vs VZTZ **POSTPONED**

[Colgate]

you have incredibly thin skin

no wonder you hate red99

[Aenor]

Originally Posted by Colgate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you have incredibly thin skin

no wonder you hate red99

He also hates kittens = not legit.

[runlvlzero]

Actually Motec the dickslapping is the only reason people play here at all. If we treated the game seriously we'd burn out extremely fast and never ever try coming back. It is candor that you are ranting about. But not the typical kind of candor your use to. The worst thing is to make a post on these forums and be completely ignored, or not even reacted to at all in game. Thats like the lowest of the low.

[Motec]

Originally Posted by Colgate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you have incredibly thin skin

no wonder you hate red99

Not really I dont think. But compared to you lot at the top end of red, yes I do. I really dont have the time or patience to put up with forumquesting in equal parts dedication and timesink as playing the actual game.

And your server population seems to think that a good proportion of other folk also feel similar or could agree with some or a majority of my points considering the very broad stroke I just brushed.

When it comes down to it, there's a few of you with no jobs, no life, and have been committed to this game for years and are in a vicious cycle living vicariously through your characters triumph. Maybe the same cant be said for the majority, and that majority has spoken in droves of footsteps out the door. People just dont want to put up with that kind of shit, I'd imagine the average age is 28-35 here and most guys I know just cant be fucked anymore.

The vocal atmosphere is toxic, and if population numbers and empirical evidence based on a fairly logarithmic trend of people leaving and forum description of the high end play is accurate then I'd be fairly certin in saying there is a problem that needs addressing. Root cause analysis is something I dabble in (and get paid a lot for) and if I had to put my finger on a cause it would be the players being forced to play that way, due to the environment and ruleset they are shoehorned in to.

So I digress, I dont think I'm particularly thin skinned. Just certainly not at a level of ambivalence tending towards narcissism and straight out misanthropy that is abundant on red99 towards your fellow players. It's as if there is an end in sight to the server and double parking on your neighbours car, cutting off your friends in traffic and speeding somehow gets you to a podium, when in reality the server has potential to be one really long drive thats enjoyable by a majority not a minority.

Why make player attrition the key attibute, where survival of the fittest the name of the game when that very specific gameplay actually shortens the life of a server; and more importantly it makes being better than everyone else at PVP an inconsequential achievement when your playerbase is 40 not 400. Isnt being the best the whole point of a PVP server, when you can dictate on your terms what you want by killing others? Why go so much further and drive them off the server in the process.

When's all said and done, at this rate nihilum, and a few individuals can admire their crowns while the tumbleweeds fly past; because no manastones and rubicite dropping is going to encourage people to go through all this shit again when the core problem isnt addressed.

[runlvlzero]

The banter is really not the primary problem with the server, its how people cope with how broken the pixels are and how jaded they are. To some degree your right. But honestly. Even on my cleric, I could stand to be in the same zone with the "other side" and we could get along like pals.

The game is stale and certainly the endgame focus on raiding rather then gentlemanly or sportly pvp is not helping though. Even things like the BoTB are colored by it. But this comes from a long standing bravado and machismo that was earned by the participants. If I participated in a BoTB my name is not so well known that I would be trolled or flamed into oblivion on the forums... (Not that cleric BoTB would have any meaning).

But people like Nizzar... (I use his name, because well, he has many gifs, and animations devoted to him) well. They are very much celebrities for all the shit talking and underhanded competitive tactics they used in the past, and present.

So when they fall. They tend to fall harder then your average joe.

The other side of your rant could equally be applied to "bluebies" who come on the board with an opinion contary to 14 years of elf simulator experience and cry about some aspect of the game which needs to be fixed, but is not broken, or go against the opinion of vocal veterans and tend to get roflstomped or laughed into oblivion (hey drakar, item loot is boss, try it before you knock it). But thats life... then again for every douchebag theres at least 10 who try to be cool about it. But hey I am pretty chill and I even loose my shit at some of the retards on these forums a lil (not really) hardly the worst I ever do is call people childish names and /ignore them

So what your seeing in hostile flamewars is really a symptom of deeper problems with the server. I would say playing on the box for awhile and getting comfortable with the way the game works here would illustrate the deeper issues. You cant just log in a few peoples toons and play for a bit. You have to devote time and energy then see how the pieces of the puzzle fall together.

You will understand why people forumquest so hard sometimes then. I say sometimes, because theres exceptions to the rule and I think some people are genuinely nuts =)

[Aenor]

"Red 99, is full of absolute scum of the EQ community.
Before the server can get better, attitudes existing must change."

That's as far as I got. To have a dangerous world where you have the more intense experience of having to watch your back and having to suffer the consequences of your actions, you have to have a world where the absolute scum run free. Otherwise, go play WoW where PvP is instanced and consensual and you can't talk to the opposition.

This is why GM intervention in banning holo destroyed the server. Holo were the bad guys... the scum... the poop sockers saw themselves as the good guys and entitled to farm the high end content uncontested. Nizzar has said straight up, if anyone challenges them they will recruit as many numbers as it takes so they can't be challenged. There aren't enough numbers here for anyone to mount a resistance, and who's really trying since the devs banned the resistance for taking the same action as Nihilum?

The problem isn't bad attitudes among the players. The problem is Rogean destroyed a large part of the limited interest in this server by showing blatant favoritism toward known RMTers.

[Aenor]

And the only solution is a reroll, which I proposed, offered to make a large donation to make happen, and Sirken has already stated will not happen. I appreciate that Sirken is trying to look for solutions. But the damage is already done. The server will always have a certain amount of interest but once you look behind the curtain and see the wizard of oz banning certain cheaters while coddling others, you can't ever return to the illusion of a level playing field.

The only way to restore that illusion is by launching a new server... not a wipe... let all 300 nihilum members keep their server and farm pixels uncontested. That's what they want, let them have it. But launch a second server with a classic ruleset such as race war or rallos zek... warts and all, keep it classic. Make the xp 300% and the timeline double the rate of an historical server timeline and make it item loot. State up front that there will be very limited GM intervention.

Then all the scum with bad attitudes will go to that server and have a blast. Nihilum will have a server where they can farm dragons with no competition, which is exactly what they want. People with good attitudes can choose Nihilum's server or blue and won't have to interact with the scum with bad attitudes. Problem solved.

[Motec]

When I say the banter is bad, you should understand that to established players it is fine. Encouraged even.

But how does the server appear from the outside, or from blue players? I'll answer it for you, it looks fucked. Plain and simple fucked. Like I would be wasting my breath to want to play there and associate with the scum of the EMU community who are very loud, very vocal and very dedicated to their craft based solely on the boards. But between yourselves, fuckin A, its an unwritten law to rub some salt into the wounds on a board now and then....but the key there is moderation. The distinct lack of technical discussion alongside is also a telltale I'd surmise could distinctly change the perception of the server if changed (at least in ratio to shit talking).

That's all from me about it though, not my world to comment more than an outsiders perspective and I hope some of it made sense, and hope more the server can find a medium that is sustainable, high pop and allows people like me to want to play there. I'm you're target audience, a fiercely competitive, technically knowledgable, time rich and change from the status quo seeking player on blue. Before building mountains one must lay a foundation; but ask yourselves what needs to change and what do you need to action? Simply telling sirken/rogean that ephi is a useless cunt (arguable at times I've heard), rules are fucked, and no teams is fail wont fix your population and longevity concerns; nor will it make sirken, rogean and the rest of the crew between GM and Dev want to spend their volunteer hours helping to fix it when they know the players wont change anyway. Probably an analogy about rehabilitation after prison I could use to convey the point, use your imagination.

Because I am on pvp forums I am supposed to post a photo. Hope I fit in.
[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Good luck all, hope to see you all there one day when it looks like a hospitable place for some good pvp and some new folks play with.

[Aenor]

Originally Posted by Motec [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hope more the server can find a medium that is sustainable, high pop and allows people like me to want to play there.

Motec, I would love it if there was a server where you and I would both want to play. You seem like a stand up guy. Your graphic was hilarious. So here are some facts.

1. Rogean feeds hamsters

2. We are the hamsters

3. Rogean fed the hamsters rat poison

4. Rogean said "oh shit... I killed most of the hamsters... I like hamsters!"

5. Rogean began to wonder, how can I get more hamsters after I killed off most of the hamster population?

So now we've identified the issue. Rogean cut off his nose to spite his face. Whether he's getting kickbacks from RMT, at the very least the one benefit he stands to gain for all his efforts is an audience. And he killed most of that audience.

I write for ESPN TrueHoop Network. I don't get paid for it, but my site is linked by ESPN.com and that gives me an audience. I love it when people post comments on my site saying I don't know shit about basketball. I would rather have people tell me I'm an idiot than wonder if anybody is reading any of it. I like having an audience.

Keep in mind, I was Cynthia in Nihilum. I had enough raid attendance that I was getting loot. I quit immediately after Kunark release because I never saw PvP. Poopsocking raid content uncontested did not interest me. I'm stating all this publicly so even if I remember Cynthia's password eventually, I won't be welcomed back.

Now Sirken wants to discuss the relative merits of Red99 and VZTZ. Well, I can tell you straight up, the GMs showed favoritism to the cheaters in the top guilds on both servers and punished the cheaters in the challenging guilds on both servers. The difference, and what made VZTZ so much more entertaining, were the regular wipes. Yes, the GMs showed favoritism to the dominant guild. But the dominant guild didn't stay dominant forever because there would always be a wipe and a fresh opportunity to race to the top and have real competition.

There will NEVER be competition on Red99. Any possibility for that was destroyed by Rogean's rat poison. But do you want to know why a third server won't happen?

It's not because it would cost Rogean money, because if he announced it today he would have over $1000 in donations by the end of the day. It's not because P99 lacks the staffing because the idea of a third server would be extremely limited GM/developer intervention.

The reason a third server will not happen is because it would take Nihilum's audience away. I said earlier they want a server with no competition but that was hyperbole. What's the point of uncontested poopsocking when there is nobody around to be jealous of your uberness? If a third server with a race war or rallos ruleset with item loot was launched, nobody would be jealous of Nihilum... we'd all be laughing at Nihilum on our 600+ population server while we had a blast competing with each other.

Nobody would pay $100-300 for a CoF or a fungi on a server where you could lose it to PvP. The market for RMT would bottom out. With 300% xp and a double-speed timeline we would plow through the content and everybody could reach max level and compete over raid content. Nihilum would lose its membership because everybody would be playing on the fun server. That's why it will never happen.

[Aenor]

"So remove the ability to be anon/role completely."

This.