Discussion on R99 vs VZTZ **POSTPONED**

[Aenor]

"Red 99, is full of absolute scum of the EQ community.
Before the server can get better, attitudes existing must change."

That's as far as I got. To have a dangerous world where you have the more intense experience of having to watch your back and having to suffer the consequences of your actions, you have to have a world where the absolute scum run free. Otherwise, go play WoW where PvP is instanced and consensual and you can't talk to the opposition.

This is why GM intervention in banning holo destroyed the server. Holo were the bad guys... the scum... the poop sockers saw themselves as the good guys and entitled to farm the high end content uncontested. Nizzar has said straight up, if anyone challenges them they will recruit as many numbers as it takes so they can't be challenged. There aren't enough numbers here for anyone to mount a resistance, and who's really trying since the devs banned the resistance for taking the same action as Nihilum?

The problem isn't bad attitudes among the players. The problem is Rogean destroyed a large part of the limited interest in this server by showing blatant favoritism toward known RMTers.

[Aenor]

And the only solution is a reroll, which I proposed, offered to make a large donation to make happen, and Sirken has already stated will not happen. I appreciate that Sirken is trying to look for solutions. But the damage is already done. The server will always have a certain amount of interest but once you look behind the curtain and see the wizard of oz banning certain cheaters while coddling others, you can't ever return to the illusion of a level playing field.

The only way to restore that illusion is by launching a new server... not a wipe... let all 300 nihilum members keep their server and farm pixels uncontested. That's what they want, let them have it. But launch a second server with a classic ruleset such as race war or rallos zek... warts and all, keep it classic. Make the xp 300% and the timeline double the rate of an historical server timeline and make it item loot. State up front that there will be very limited GM intervention.

Then all the scum with bad attitudes will go to that server and have a blast. Nihilum will have a server where they can farm dragons with no competition, which is exactly what they want. People with good attitudes can choose Nihilum's server or blue and won't have to interact with the scum with bad attitudes. Problem solved.

[Motec]

When I say the banter is bad, you should understand that to established players it is fine. Encouraged even.

But how does the server appear from the outside, or from blue players? I'll answer it for you, it looks fucked. Plain and simple fucked. Like I would be wasting my breath to want to play there and associate with the scum of the EMU community who are very loud, very vocal and very dedicated to their craft based solely on the boards. But between yourselves, fuckin A, its an unwritten law to rub some salt into the wounds on a board now and then....but the key there is moderation. The distinct lack of technical discussion alongside is also a telltale I'd surmise could distinctly change the perception of the server if changed (at least in ratio to shit talking).

That's all from me about it though, not my world to comment more than an outsiders perspective and I hope some of it made sense, and hope more the server can find a medium that is sustainable, high pop and allows people like me to want to play there. I'm you're target audience, a fiercely competitive, technically knowledgable, time rich and change from the status quo seeking player on blue. Before building mountains one must lay a foundation; but ask yourselves what needs to change and what do you need to action? Simply telling sirken/rogean that ephi is a useless cunt (arguable at times I've heard), rules are fucked, and no teams is fail wont fix your population and longevity concerns; nor will it make sirken, rogean and the rest of the crew between GM and Dev want to spend their volunteer hours helping to fix it when they know the players wont change anyway. Probably an analogy about rehabilitation after prison I could use to convey the point, use your imagination.

Because I am on pvp forums I am supposed to post a photo. Hope I fit in.
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Good luck all, hope to see you all there one day when it looks like a hospitable place for some good pvp and some new folks play with.

[Aenor]

Originally Posted by Motec [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hope more the server can find a medium that is sustainable, high pop and allows people like me to want to play there.

Motec, I would love it if there was a server where you and I would both want to play. You seem like a stand up guy. Your graphic was hilarious. So here are some facts.

1. Rogean feeds hamsters

2. We are the hamsters

3. Rogean fed the hamsters rat poison

4. Rogean said "oh shit... I killed most of the hamsters... I like hamsters!"

5. Rogean began to wonder, how can I get more hamsters after I killed off most of the hamster population?

So now we've identified the issue. Rogean cut off his nose to spite his face. Whether he's getting kickbacks from RMT, at the very least the one benefit he stands to gain for all his efforts is an audience. And he killed most of that audience.

I write for ESPN TrueHoop Network. I don't get paid for it, but my site is linked by ESPN.com and that gives me an audience. I love it when people post comments on my site saying I don't know shit about basketball. I would rather have people tell me I'm an idiot than wonder if anybody is reading any of it. I like having an audience.

Keep in mind, I was Cynthia in Nihilum. I had enough raid attendance that I was getting loot. I quit immediately after Kunark release because I never saw PvP. Poopsocking raid content uncontested did not interest me. I'm stating all this publicly so even if I remember Cynthia's password eventually, I won't be welcomed back.

Now Sirken wants to discuss the relative merits of Red99 and VZTZ. Well, I can tell you straight up, the GMs showed favoritism to the cheaters in the top guilds on both servers and punished the cheaters in the challenging guilds on both servers. The difference, and what made VZTZ so much more entertaining, were the regular wipes. Yes, the GMs showed favoritism to the dominant guild. But the dominant guild didn't stay dominant forever because there would always be a wipe and a fresh opportunity to race to the top and have real competition.

There will NEVER be competition on Red99. Any possibility for that was destroyed by Rogean's rat poison. But do you want to know why a third server won't happen?

It's not because it would cost Rogean money, because if he announced it today he would have over $1000 in donations by the end of the day. It's not because P99 lacks the staffing because the idea of a third server would be extremely limited GM/developer intervention.

The reason a third server will not happen is because it would take Nihilum's audience away. I said earlier they want a server with no competition but that was hyperbole. What's the point of uncontested poopsocking when there is nobody around to be jealous of your uberness? If a third server with a race war or rallos ruleset with item loot was launched, nobody would be jealous of Nihilum... we'd all be laughing at Nihilum on our 600+ population server while we had a blast competing with each other.

Nobody would pay $100-300 for a CoF or a fungi on a server where you could lose it to PvP. The market for RMT would bottom out. With 300% xp and a double-speed timeline we would plow through the content and everybody could reach max level and compete over raid content. Nihilum would lose its membership because everybody would be playing on the fun server. That's why it will never happen.

[Sirken]

so i appreciate all the well written constructive feed back. your walls of text are not going unread. as a grown up, im not scared of paragraphs. so thanks!

as it gets closer to thursday ill shoot some PMs to some players to see if they would want to join me. if players enjoy it we will do it again later on, and that will allow me to shuffle in different players to get more points of view.

<3
Sirks

[Aenor]

Just in case my hamster analogy inspires Rogean to realize "hmm... I like hamsters... I'd rather have 600 hamsters than only 100 hamsters," let me make one last suggestion for a theoretical third server.

State at launch that the server is not permanent. State that, once the server has gone through a double-speed timeline all the way to velious, there will be a vote every 6 months after velious release asking if the players want a wipe. As soon as the majority of the population says they want a wipe, it all starts over.

That way the current red and blue servers remain the only permanent servers. Rogean promised there would never be a wipe, and he doesn't want to fail at keeping that promise. He doesn't have to. Make a separate, non-permanent server with an accelerated timeline and double xp rate and let the players know up front their toons can eventually be wiped by popular demand.

[Aenor]

The one other thing that would make a server's integrity beyond question would be to make the character database public. If there was a way to automatically port it into a Magelo database so everybody could see every piece of gear on every character on the server, any RMT would be identified by the population immediately. Ok seriously that's my last post for this morning. Off work in 30 and going to sleep.

[Aenor]

"So remove the ability to be anon/role completely."

This.

[heartbrand]

I'm a huge nba fanatic and follow like every beat writer ever on twitter. Must know who you are immediately.

[Agatha]

Originally Posted by heartbrand [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm a huge nba fanatic and follow like every beat writer ever on twitter. Must know who you are immediately.

Do not do this, incoming 6 paragraph responses to you're twitter comments.