Why is training allowed on p99 in veeshan's peak? (poll asking your opinion)

[FenninEQaddict]

Originally Posted by Vianna [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well let's open that discussion right here. It doesn't have to be in private. This is a good forum for discussion right here. Let's see who is actually for or against making VP a true competition instead of who can train the best. I mean when the skill you brag about most as a player is the size of the train and how many people it killed...That sounds like PVP and not PVE.

TMO is skilled enough to kill targets without training another guild in VP. They demonstrate that when no one competes against them. Why not let all raid mobs be a race ? Just like the current ones outside of VP. They still have the numbers advantage as it stands on the server. They will still likely get most the mobs in VP with the number of keys they have for the zone and with variance they will likely have the larger force when mobs spawn at random times. Let's just discuss removing the aspect of training allowed in VP and future zones and make it a race like for any other mob. It is a benefit to all guilds to remove this. It means if you win the race you get your shot at it regardless of the size of your guild. If the larger guild can't field a force to win a race...That is on them and there should be no backdoor way out of it for anyone via training.

Im sure TMO or any guild that was in VP would be alot more open to racing if it didnt take just 1-2 of a rival guild to get FTE and loot. If the dragons were based off raid force and engage and kill instead of who gets the FTE shout then it might be different. I have read and heard complaints about a guild getting FTE with 1 group or less on raid targets then the rest of their force rolls into zone or even doesnt show up and they get credit for the kill.

VP dragons from what I know take a raid force to kill and FTE shouts just interfere with that. Your single monk/sk/necro who has been following a raid gets FTE what is TMO of FE supposed to do back off die to the dragon/ae and the spend 20+minutes cr because a lone monk/SK/Necro feels they can solo a dragon.

Also from what I hear the crying here about training your guild FE has solo griefers in VP for the only purpose of to train TMO while they are raiding. So the hypocrisy of this thread is amazing. 1 monk will never be able to kill a dragon there on this server but if skilled can sure kill a raid. So the moral high ground doesnt work here. And anyone who knows about your guilds training habits in VP when they cant mobilize a force to kill the dragons knows this.

I think the GMs, and Guides have made the best of a bad situation since VP is a drama melting pot on this server. There will always be someone crying foul there whether its TMO/FE/IB/FC or one of the other VP key'd guilds and if they run to it everytime something happens they would have no time to help the people who actually need it.

[Ele]

Originally Posted by FenninEQaddict [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Im sure TMO or any guild that was in VP would be alot more open to racing if it didnt take just 1-2 of a rival guild to get FTE and loot. If the dragons were based off raid force and engage and kill instead of who gets the FTE shout then it might be different. I have read and heard complaints about a guild getting FTE with 1 group or less on raid targets then the rest of their force rolls into zone or even doesnt show up and they get credit for the kill.

VP dragons from what I know take a raid force to kill and FTE shouts just interfere with that. Your single monk/sk/necro who has been following a raid gets FTE what is TMO of FE supposed to do back off die to the dragon/ae and the spend 20+minutes cr because a lone monk/SK/Necro feels they can solo a dragon.

If training is within the "ruleset" and used with reckless abandon, then why is sniping FTE, which is also in the "ruleset", all of a sudden bad and not competition?

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If training is within the "ruleset" and used with reckless abandon, then why is sniping FTE, which is also in the "ruleset", all of a sudden bad and not competition?

Training helps remove some of the bad from FTE. FTE battles in VP = long long long CR's.

[Vianna]

Originally Posted by FenninEQaddict [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Im sure TMO or any guild that was in VP would be alot more open to racing if it didnt take just 1-2 of a rival guild to get FTE and loot. If the dragons were based off raid force and engage and kill instead of who gets the FTE shout then it might be different. I have read and heard complaints about a guild getting FTE with 1 group or less on raid targets then the rest of their force rolls into zone or even doesnt show up and they get credit for the kill.

VP dragons from what I know take a raid force to kill and FTE shouts just interfere with that. Your single monk/sk/necro who has been following a raid gets FTE what is TMO of FE supposed to do back off die to the dragon/ae and the spend 20+minutes cr because a lone monk/SK/Necro feels they can solo a dragon.

Also from what I hear the crying here about training your guild FE has solo griefers in VP for the only purpose of to train TMO while they are raiding. So the hypocrisy of this thread is amazing. 1 monk will never be able to kill a dragon there on this server but if skilled can sure kill a raid. So the moral high ground doesnt work here. And anyone who knows about your guilds training habits in VP when they cant mobilize a force to kill the dragons knows this.

I think the GMs, and Guides have made the best of a bad situation since VP is a drama melting pot on this server. There will always be someone crying foul there whether its TMO/FE/IB/FC or one of the other VP key'd guilds and if they run to it everytime something happens they would have no time to help the people who actually need it.

Again this isn't about FE vs. TMO this is about the end game of the server now. You make Valid points about the FTE shout which I will get back to. Training in VP is legal at the moment so anyone that does it isn't in the wrong and I never said they were whether it be TMO/FE/IB whomever. I wasn't calling anyone out on training. I was discussing the validity of it's use in the end game at this time and the future. It's a griefing tool and a stalling tool that is easily misused by any guild in VP that has keys in VP.

Now to return to FTE shouts. Obviously we can set some kind of standard if someone is making a pull and gets to the dragon first to start the pull. As long as the puller is alive and making his way back to where his raid is camped it won't be interfered with etc.These are things that can be discussed. Just don't interfere with the race for the mob with trains or a valid pull to a raid...Or an engaged mob by a raid. It's things to work out sure but there can be some general agreements made to work within the mechanics GMs have given us.

Alas I doubt it will happen as stated before. There is a culture there now as even you pointed out of bad blood between guilds and individuals that is hard to overcome. I just want to point out my thoughts are my own not those of a guild. I have no malice towards anyone and I am not calling out a guild for doing anything wrong. I was just thinking of a way to make it better for everyone involved. Obviously it takes some standard agreements beforehand.

[radditsu]

Originally Posted by FenninEQaddict [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Im sure TMO or any guild that was in VP would be alot more open to racing if it didnt take just 1-2 of a rival guild to get FTE and loot. If the dragons were based off raid force and engage and kill instead of who gets the FTE shout then it might be different. I have read and heard complaints about a guild getting FTE with 1 group or less on raid targets then the rest of their force rolls into zone or even doesnt show up and they get credit for the kill.

VP dragons from what I know take a raid force to kill and FTE shouts just interfere with that. Your single monk/sk/necro who has been following a raid gets FTE what is TMO of FE supposed to do back off die to the dragon/ae and the spend 20+minutes cr because a lone monk/SK/Necro feels they can solo a dragon.

Also from what I hear the crying here about training your guild FE has solo griefers in VP for the only purpose of to train TMO while they are raiding. So the hypocrisy of this thread is amazing. 1 monk will never be able to kill a dragon there on this server but if skilled can sure kill a raid. So the moral high ground doesnt work here. And anyone who knows about your guilds training habits in VP when they cant mobilize a force to kill the dragons knows this.

I think the GMs, and Guides have made the best of a bad situation since VP is a drama melting pot on this server. There will always be someone crying foul there whether its TMO/FE/IB/FC or one of the other VP key'd guilds and if they run to it everytime something happens they would have no time to help the people who actually need it.

I admitted I trained in VP for hours. Because I was trained in VP for hours. It doesn't make it right. I feel if I was training you and you had fraps, the character should be suspended at the least. It's not competition. It's the definition of stupidity. It is the reason I took a break. It's a bad rule. Bad rules should be discussed. Looks like training is frowned upon by the community, if were one to go by the vote.

The only people who seem to be in favor of it is one guild that gets the main benefit of it. The only people from that guild who are speaking out against the rule are A) TMO's known forum trolls or B) TMO's known trainers. Training is a PVP tool and should be on a PVP server. I play on blue servers to enjoy myself and not be griefed by assholes.

The pathing IS messed up in there. But someone with knowledge can pull PD right every time with minimal risk. I have seen him warp through the walls in different ways. But as soon as he is through your puller can flop/accept the rez box/coh and the adds never warp. The dragons are too big for the way the pathing nodes are setup. Trakanon has the same issue when you do not immediately engage after a shroom. He will run through a wall.

The pull and raid cohesion was always the real challenge of EQ. Which is simple as pie in Vent.

I have been here long enough to realize any kind of reasoned response will ultimately fall on deaf ears. ESPECIALLY when it comes at any concession by anybody. I swear it is worse than congress. I understand why this comes up from time to time, but the glacial pace that any changes would/should be developed would make the situation a moot point. Community focused approaches have no place here. Not when the paitents are running the Asylum. Not when they have a vested interest in controlling loot for power/RMT/epeen.

BDA tried to be the Jesus of the server. Jesus has no place here. FE tried to be the black panther movement. It worked better than the Jesus movement, but ultimately failed once TMO started investing "resources" back into the game.

Nothing will change until people that CAN do something DO something. The non-raiding community (the majority) will not do something because they have no dog in the fight, and can get raid items for platinum. The people who want to raid but have wife and kids and are real adults can only do so much. The non-TMO hardcore raiders from time to time bloody the machine's nose, but are ultimately disillusioned by friends leaving to the machine(Cecily, although i get why), or burnout of minimal gains with maximum effort. 24 hour train wars to kill a dragon who drops a couple of toy weapons should not be anyone's idea of fun. My 16 month old has a better grasp on sharing and cooperation than some of the grown ass men on this server.


Bottom line: If you kill enough trakanon's to have the keys, you should be able to fight the endgame on a blue server unmolested. PVP rules should not be implemented on a Blue server. It is a bad rule.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by radditsu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bottom line: If you kill enough trakanon's to have the keys, you should be able to fight the endgame on a blue server unmolested. PVP rules should not be implemented on a Blue server. It is a bad rule.

Kunark has been out too long.

[Raavak]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Kunark has been out too long.

This rule has been in place so long. Why the whining now?

[radditsu]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Kunark has been out too long.

Not disputing that in the least.

[Zapatos]

Originally Posted by xmonkx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Until the GM's state that you can no longer train in VP, I will continue to unmercifully train any person or persons that steps into VP without a TMO tag on.

lol thanks for proving my point so quickly

[xmonkx]

Originally Posted by Zapatos [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

lol thanks for proving my point so quickly

If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.