Iksar Shaman - Solo Challenges? - Page 67

Duik · #**661** 01-30-2024, 05:06 PM

I no longer care. Its become a clown show. Shoot mobs wiff ya magic. Or not.
Buuut, weapon procs are random in this instance.
JBB clicks are not. You CHOOSE when to click. The only random bit is resists or interupts. But you still choose when to instigate a click.
That is i believe where the difference is.

What's the difference between having a light on and a hardon?
You can sleep with a light on. Budum tish.

DeathsSilkyMist · #**662** 01-30-2024, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You CHOOSE when to click.

Wise words!

Troxx · #**663** 01-30-2024, 09:14 PM

I am curious - for these rats in the maze in PoM you are quoting - can you give us some parses that show they only 10 dps once slowed? I am a bit beyond suspicious this number is not accurate. I ain't gonna pay for a PoM succor just to test this out but this is NOT consistent with 4.5k hp mobs vs 7k hp mobs i am used to on any of my classes.

10dps is par for the course for slowed KC trash, but those are like 4k mobs. I suspect any mob in the 7k hp range will actually do more. Beyond that are we talking 10dps for a shaman with a shield equipped and not autoattacking at all or a shaman actively swinging a 2hb (no shield ac and riposte damage factored in). A shaman without a shield will take more damage than one without. If autoattacking they WILL take more dmg than if not attacking. Furthermore, on any parses you provide were you using 2hb or a shield and no autoattack and riposte dmg? One riposte in a 2 minute fight can be the difference of over 100hp - which has a huge impact on recovery time (napkin math).

I can easily parse the attacking vs not attacking shield vs not on regular shit; but not paying to port to PoM to test on mobs in those ranges.

It's a not insignificant part of the equation assuming you are hunting 7khp mobs (vs the standard 4k-6k mobs most shamans would be soloing for xp)

DeathsSilkyMist · #**664** 01-30-2024, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am curious - for these rats in the maze in PoM you are quoting - can you give us some parses that show they only 10 dps once slowed? I am a bit beyond suspicious this number is not accurate. I ain't gonna pay for a PoM succor just to test this out but this is NOT consistent with 4.5k hp mobs vs 7k hp mobs i am used to on any of my classes.

Here is a random fight I found from my SK. I think I was using it for another test, which is why I was face tanking:

Ratfink damage = 1261 over 102 seconds = 12.3 DPS unslowed.

This is only one fight obviously, but lets assume they do 20 DPS to a Shaman unslowed.

Togor's Insects is slowing by at least 65% by level 58. That means they would be doing like 7 DPS after a slow if their average is 20 DPS.

Honestly I thought the estimated 10 DPS was generally too high, I just wanted to strongman the argument. So this just further supports JBB.

Remember that 1261 damage is like 40% of a Tank's life pool if they have 3000 HP. Mob DPS is generally much lower, because player HP is much lower. A Ratfink has 7000 HP as a level 48 trash mob.

Troxx · #**665** 01-30-2024, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You'd be surprised how low mob DPS is. This is because a level 60 tank has like 3k HP without raid gear. The Ratfinks have 7000 HP by comparison as a level 48 trash mob.

I parse everything. You'd be surprised just how little surprises me.

Most recently on my (now 57) ranger I can confirm that as a level 57 ranger with the full complement of ranger defensive abilities that a ravishing drolvarg in DL or a dark blue mob (drolv guardians included) will average about 10dps with a tagars 50% slow.

Under the same circumstances a:

https://wiki.project1999.com/Kromrif_Guardsman

In EW with 6.5k hp will average about 18dps after slow.

Neither of these are rats in PoM maze. And my ranger does not have a 70% slow (only 50%) but I also know my ranger has a much higher dodge skill, defensive skill, has a parry skill (shaman has NONE) and a riposte skill (shaman has NONE).

I seriously am questioning whether we are assuming a priest class without many defensive lines and skill caps will be actually taking 10dps on a 70% slowed 7khp velious mob. Beyond that, I question whether said shaman would actually be taking comparable damage to a warrior class pet with these skills (where the shaman has none).

I suspect the shaman will take more dps than the pet. Admittedly I need to parse this. I will try to do so in the next few days.

More variables.

I have played the JBB game.
I noticed it was simply worse.
It is THE REASON I sold it.

I am not convinced our over-simplified napkin math is correct to begin with. Bcbrown being right and you being wrong about the stupid value of a *who gives a shit* quality proc having 2dps or 0.75dps notwithstanding ...

DeathsSilkyMist · #**666** 01-30-2024, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am not convinced our over-simplified napkin math is correct to begin with. Bcbrown being right and you being wrong about the stupid value of a *who gives a shit* quality proc having 2dps or 0.75dps notwithstanding ...

You have yet to prove my math wrong. Simply claiming it is wrong isn't an argument.

I also proved Bcbrown wrong:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=650
https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=660

Continuing to act like this isn't helping your argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have played the JBB game.
I noticed it was simply worse.
It is THE REASON I sold it.

You could have been wrong in your assessment at the time too! This is just an opinion right now.

Since you are including personal experience into your argument, I did actually solo PoM Rat Maze from 58-60 on my Shaman using JBB. The Rats really didn't do much damage from what I remember. I chewed through them. It was great XP too. Best I could find at the time. Better than Neriak Arena since I didn't have Epic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I seriously am questioning whether we are assuming a priest class without many defensive lines and skill caps will be actually taking 10dps on a 70% slowed 7khp velious mob. Beyond that, I question whether said shaman would actually be taking comparable damage to a warrior class pet with these skills (where the shaman has none).

My Shaman takes 18.5 DPS from Ionat after he is slowed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPxeOVuX0G8 It's really not that surprising. Ionat hits 2x as hard as Ratfinks, is higher level, and designed for a group of players. It would honestly be more surprising if a random level 48 trash mob did even 60% of Ionat's damage after being slowed.

Troxx · #**667** 01-30-2024, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My Shaman takes 18.5 DPS from Ionat after he is slowed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPxeOVuX0G8 It's really not that surprising. Ionat hits 2x as hard as Ratfinks, is higher level, and designed for a group of players. It would honestly be more surprising if a random level 48 trash mob did even 60% of Ionat's damage after being slowed.

Your shaman:

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Shamwowi

My shaman:

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Jolav

Mine is more typical of a group geared 58 shaman for the type of scenario we are discussing (58 shaman farming xp). I have not specifically counted counted up your gear pieces but it would seem that more than half your gear is TOV raid target or above.

Do you suspect this is typical for a leveling shaman in their 50s? Would Ionate do 18dps to my shaman (for fucks sake I would hope not)

If a 7k hp velious mob does 10dps on average to you at 60 with that gear - one could reasonably deduce it would do a lot more damage to a lesser geared shaman at 60 and even more to the same level of gear on a 56 or 58 shaman.

More variables not accounted for.

You are not at all geared like a typical shaman in their 50s grinding xp.

Troxx · #**668** 01-30-2024, 10:52 PM

As an example you (as a damn shaman) have 100 more ac than my warrior:

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Bedavir

How relevant are your current experiences to a leveling shaman (not a raid twink) levels 54-60?

DeathsSilkyMist · #**669** 01-30-2024, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are not at all geared like a typical shaman in their 50s grinding xp.

Remember that you are the one who added a Fungi Tunic to their "napkin math". My examples did not initially include it. But now you are worried about gear all of a sudden.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If a 7k hp velious mob does 10dps on average to you at 60 with that gear - one could reasonably deduce it would do a lot more damage to a lesser geared shaman at 60 and even more to the same level of gear on a 56 or 58 shaman.

I didn't say a trash mob does 10 DPS on average to my Shaman. I am not sure where you read that. I didn't use my Shaman at all for the 10 DPS average number I used initially.

I didn't say my gear isn't affecting the DPS of Ionat. But it is up to you to determine how much of a factor it is if you are trying to claim the DPS will be much higher. Right now this is just your opinion that it is such a big difference.

DeathsSilkyMist · #**670** 01-30-2024, 11:42 PM

Here are 3 PoM Rat Maze fight logs from my Shadowknight:

Here are 189850 melee attempts from my logs against Bazgek:

From the data above:

19.33 DPS over 3 fights from a Ratman Rage or Ratfink.

12.33% chance to dodge, riposte, or parry. Even though Shamans have dodge, I'll just apply the full 12.33%

So we can say ~22 DPS on a Shaman when excluding these. We can bump it to 25 DPS assuming I have less AC than my SK.

25 DPS x 0.33 (67% slow from Togor's) = 8.25 DPS.