Lols TMO

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by hatelore [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your guild should be held responsible for the actions of YOUR guild's members. That is all. Court ajourned.

The guild should be held responsible to the extent that it failed in its duties. One person running off and being an asshole when there was no prior indication that they would do so doesn't put the responsibility on the guild. Certainly, there's associative issues which is why he was removed.

It would be laughably easy to make a new account, use a different computer & connection, and level up something to the low 50's join any number of guilds and train people. Frankly, I'm surprised that level of P99 terrorism hasn't happened already.

Originally Posted by hatelore

And you find it hilarous that your guild cannot control its members? Yeah me too, But I bet by banning your guild for a few weeks, your guilds unruly members would fall right in line.

Shutting down the server would also stop all the trains. Stop the feigned outrage and hyperbole.

Originally Posted by hatelore

Companies are held responsible for the actions of there employees all of the time also, I call bullshit on your made up burger king analogy.

When the company has a responsibility to prevent such behavior, yes. It's called Respondeat Superior. I suggest you read more closely. The concept might seem less stupid if you actually understood it.

Originally Posted by Ravager

Had there not been such damning fraps, Dinacarl would still be in TMO and every one of you would be defending his actions calling it a "pull" like he tried to claim before everyone knew how good the fraps was.

He likely would have been off the hook. People get away for crimes all the time for a lack of evidence. It doesn't make it right, but that's the reality of the situation. Personally, I'm glad there's a FRAPS. It means that we can actually demand accountability for the actions of our members. That's about all any guild can do in a situation like this.

[Ambrotos]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Then we end up in a situation where one party, with little to lose, holds the greater party hostage (see Catherin & raid discussions).

Had to comment on this. Because the way you word it, you make it sound like a minority held the majority hostage. Simply not the case, where as the entire rule set and how raiding was changed on Rogean's server, per Rogean. So the old raid style of the server was no longer allowed, and was forced to come up with something better for the entire server and not just two guilds.

Both sides couldn't agree and ideas were hashed out no matter how hard four people worked behind everyone's back to keep the same bullshit. They were slapped down by Emperor Rogean and now we have a change in how the server is, as compared to the past.

Yes the majority of the guild fought for what they considered fair. It even allowed the Main raiding guilds(3 then, now 2 vs 4+ "casual") to still have a greater share of mobs as compared to the "hostage takers". In the end things were meshed with how Rogean wanted and felt was best for the server.

In effect anything raid related was erased like the Xman 3 movie and moved forward for the health of the server starting fresh.

If anything, those four people did more to try and hurt this server than anything else. If they truly had wanted to work with the majority of the rest of the server maybe things would have worked out differently than try and force it down their throats and them saying fuck that.

[VANVEM]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Unbrella got snarky, and that was the wrong thing, but that should carry no penalty or punishment. It just means he acted like an ass. If you've been paying attention, you'd notice that we have dealt with the offender. The presence of an officer is meaningless if there was no real way to prevent the train. If he knew it was going to happen or if he ordered it, that'd be one thing. Here, someone took the matter into their own hands and ran off the rails. There's nothing that Unbrella could have realistically done to foresee this.



Then we end up in a situation where one party, with little to lose, holds the greater party hostage (see Catherin & raid discussions).



If I say I think someone deserved something does that make me responsible for it? While it's certainly poor taste to pop off as an officer, getting lippy doesn't mean that you should retroactively be considered the cause of something.



In real life, supervisors are responsible for the actions that are within the scope of the underling's duties. When Chest finally snaps and shoots a bunch of people while wearing his work uniform no one will be able to sue Burger King. Shooting people isn't something the management would put him up to nor is it something they should have foreseen. The only responsibility on Burger King is to say "Woah, yeah, he's crazy. GTFO."

That's precisely what happened here. Dinacarl went too far, and the guild has dealt with him.

I find it hilarious how willing people are to attach severe liability to situations that are clearly beyond the control of the ostensibly supervisory parties. If the guild leadership helps someone break the rules, or if they knew or should have known that something bad would happen then you can attach liability. If they refused to discipline the person then you can consider action, especially if that person screws up again after the leadership agreed to continue housing that person.



Stop setting up a false narrative. You're framing the issue as if Unbrella has done something actionable. He got mouthy, but he still was clearly making himself available for honest attempts at resolution. Unbrella did not train BDA. There is one crime here, and it was punished to the maximum extent within TMO's power.

You can not possible be that dense, so lets walk down the path again shall we?

Can BDA prove that Unbrella was instrumental in the train? Nope not even going to try.

but one of two things is true here:

A. Unbrella was at the fear portal, with GT and awaiting the pull, in which case he would only have known about the train and was too quick with a retort to have formed an opinion as to the validity of the train.
B. He witnessed the train and knew what had happened and should have immediately intervened by being an upstanding officer of TMO.

So it doesn't matter that Unbrella wasn't the person that trained, as an officer of the offending character's guild Unbreela had a responsibility to the rest of the server, not just BDA, to Immediately get involved and find out if a rules violation had occurred.

Before you come back with some BS about what Chest did, see my previous post.

No, you see To get the BS on the server to lighten up, we need to have a much heavier hand by the GM's without increasing the workload involved. if it is made to be a huge penalty to get the Gm's involved, then people will stop doing things that need to get the gm's involved. or at least stop recruiting ass hats and police their own ranks BEFORE they humiliate the guild in front of the rest of the server