not a single player has told me to plan on raiding

[maverixdamighty]

Originally Posted by Enslaved [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would never tell someone to look forward to the raid scene on this server, would you?

You and your group of fuck-enablers has destroyed this server and you have no legitimate input into this discussion after being a main root of the issue for so long.

true or false you tried to join TMO and were denied?

If the raid scene was so deplorable why would you do such a thing, boggles!

[maverixdamighty]

Originally Posted by Enslaved [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I joined TMO over a year ago, tracked for over 20 hours in one week, and was removed due to sheer intelligence. Close to the truth as you will ever come.

sounds plausible.

[skipdog]

Originally Posted by Enslaved [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have yet to hear a single non-absurd argument for the continuation of Variance on this server. Please feel free to contribute.

You have repeated this over and over so I'll use the same argument Sirkin stated in another thread today:

as far as different rules for different bosses or different raids, that was a problem all on its own. it started because i didnt like 100 afk people sitting on trak spawn spot, and a random number generator giving FTE to an AFK player. it was stupid, and it killed any and all competition/racing for the mobs it was happening on.

Basically, a FTE poopsock fest is not a healthy or good competition. It doesn't measure much. The "winner" is the guild that got picked by the random number generator. You think that is the best way to determine who deserves the loot?

To many, the best competition that this game can offer, is a mobilization contest that this variance creates.

I don't think anybody can honestly say that they think its a better "competition" to have 4 guilds standing on a mob spawn and killing it instantly and having a random number generator choose the winner compared to "which guild can engage a monster first that can spawn at a random time."

The people here from smaller non-tracking guilds wanting the removal of variance completely, simply want the ability to poopsock mobs and let a random number generator determine the victor, with very minimal time invested. There is nothing wrong with that, but don't sit here and act like it's "better for the server" or it "makes for a better competition" or "the server is dying cuz TMO". The server certainly isn't dying, and the raid scene is certainly not in a state where it could ever cause the server to die.

If you other guilds really wanted better "competition" than your suggestions would reflect that. They don't for the most part. The fact is, no matter what changes are made, if there is supposed to be a sense of "competition", then that means a guild can be the best on the server in whatever that competition consists of. That means they will get a huge majority of the loot. The only way for this to not be the case, is for there to be no competition, i.e. GM forced rotations or FTE poopsock lotteries. That's fine if you want that, but at least say it. At least just say "TMO is better than us, and we just wish we could get loot without working as hard as they do". There have been some great suggestions, such as making VP a non-training zone and having more notice on server repops and I think those are good reasonable changes that wouldn't remove the spirit of competition from the server.

[ripwind]

Yikes. This thread!

So, new guy here. I started raiding back in Kunark/Velious on live. I think at that time, boss re-pops seemed to be relatively random, but still somewhat "guaranteed" to happen within a certain amount of time. It wasn't like they popped exactly 72 hours after they were killed or something. Am I mistaken?

Please excuse my ignorance, and don't flame me too hard.

Thanks!

-Rip

[Lyra]

Originally Posted by skipdog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You think that is the best way to determine who deserves the loot?

There are a lot of things in this state of the game that may not be best.

If we are going to make changes to make the game better, we sure aren't going to call it classic EQ, are we?

Clearly....ever so clearly....variance is not some brilliant improvement to original EQ.

I am in no way guaranteeing an immediate resolution to this servers raiding scene problems, but it will at least give us the original game.

[maverixdamighty]

Originally Posted by Enslaved [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So... Variance = Tracking Guilds = Zerg
No Variance = FTE = no favoritism either way, it goes completely by the population of the guild at that raid = 100% Classic.

please post a ss similar to a FTE poopsock from live.

[maverixdamighty]

Originally Posted by Enslaved [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm sorry, are you saying that there was Variance in Classic?

i'm sorry i already stated there was no variance but there also weren't 500 capped characters competing for the same mobs in kunark. I'll wait for you to post a screenshot of one of these FTE battles on classic in kunark since you claim it's classic.

[skipdog]

Originally Posted by Enslaved [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

K Skipdog, I'm going to respond to you nicely since it seems to be in the spirit that you responded to me. I implore you to follow my (extremely short) steps of logic as I have followed yours.

TMO is bigger than us, us being the casual guilds that deplore the raidscene on this server. That's FINE. We just wish we could compete on a level playing field where the larger the guild is, the bigger their chances are at a FTE. Variance completely changes this, to the point where, "ONLY the tracking guilds, which also have the wherewithal to zerg the track target, have a chance to compete."

So... Variance = Tracking Guilds = Zerg
No Variance = FTE = no favoritism either way, it goes completely by the population of the guild at that raid = 100% Classic.

Not sure what you think you are spelling out to me... yeah I understand everything you've said and even made that abundantly clear in my post.

So you want zero competition and want to show up at xx pm, instakill the dragon and hope to win the lottery. Grats. I assume you would also be happy with not even going to the spawn point and just signing up for a loot lottery and being logged in a certain time, right? I mean, what does it matter? It's not like you even get to experience an actual fight with the dragon or want any competition.

At least you've just admitted that "yeah, we don't want to compete, because they are way better than us. we just want a chance at free loot without all the effort".

[skipdog]

Originally Posted by Lyra [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There are a lot of things in this state of the game that may not be best.

If we are going to make changes to make the game better, we sure aren't going to call it classic EQ, are we?

Clearly....ever so clearly....variance is not some brilliant improvement to original EQ.

I am in no way guaranteeing an immediate resolution to this servers raiding scene problems, but it will at least give us the original game.

Yep, "classic" was ignored in this case, for actual raiding competition. Just like "staring at the spellbook" was removed and many other non-classic things ignored to make the server better without ruining the classic experience. I see your point, classic is classic and that's what this server is. But nobody is screaming to bring the spellbook back and there are many many many examples that players are thankful that it's not "completely classic". I'd rather have the server staff choose to do what they think is best for the server. At least it's clear that the people complaining, simply don't want to compete and simply want the chance at free loot without the work.

I get that it's super easy to just say "it's Classic" and not have to argue points or admit that you don't want competition and honestly I don't have anything I can say to get around this loophole.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by skipdog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To many, the best competition that this game can offer, is a mobilization contest that this variance creates.

This is simply not true. You have a tracking competition, and a 'who can log out the most buffed chars' competition.