My proposal for Raiding guilds and GMs of P1999

[tsonka]

Well said Alawen

[Taxi]

Originally Posted by Loke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think raiding on this server can be compared to economics in regard to Adam Smith's concept of an invisible hand. Eventually it will work itself out. If people get sick of sitting on mobs, then they'll eventually stop. If not, they should be more than welcome to continue using whatever tactic they please assuming it abides by basic server rules (PnP). There is no need to regulate it... it will eventually fix itself.

Just like Adam Smith, you underestimate the power of greed. If people are allowed to perma-camp the best loot in the game in a Zerg guild, they will do it. You say "No need to regulate it" and yet it is already regulated... Its just a question of how to regulate it.

I already voted either for A) FFA (my favorite) or B) One guild kills or fails at killing a named ----> Next in-line (or random) has a go at it.

[nilbog]

Originally Posted by Supreme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

what about two servers..one for the FFA people and one that has rotations.

I'm sure Rogean would give more specific reasons as to why he would not patch 2 servers every week as the server hardware admin.

My reasoning should be easy to understand. We will not split the population up for anything other than having too many players on one server. We will not listen to 2 different sets of petitioners and deal with multiple databases just so you can have a rotation. It is already an enormous amount of work.

Originally Posted by Nizzarr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The times are dire! We need changes on the raiding scene of the p1999, as soon as possible.

I'm completely disheartened with the state of raiding as well. A lot of the players were not here when the current rules were made and/or have no idea why they exist.

No one wants to "camp the dragon", or "turn in a token for their badass weekly chance of rotating a simulated dragon". I don't want this for you, and I don't even play.

WE DO NOT CARE if you get loot. WE DO NOT CARE about guilds. We are here to make classic Everquest. Beyond that, you guys should be able to make your own rules when it comes to raid content. Too bad you can't.

We started out with no enforced raiding rules. Disaster. Guilds training each other, guilds camping out on top of raid npcs days in advance. Then we went to a rotation. That worked fine until a 3rd guild entered the mix, then it became terrible as well.

Then, there was weeks of deliberation about a new system. It was 95% bickering, 5% suggestions. We made the best system out of the best suggestions, and went with it.

So we went with spawn variance + raiding rules. As much as you guys don't like it, this keeps work off of us. We don't want to hear your problems. We want to develop content.. and you should want us developing content if you're interested in it existing.

I said time and time again to the raiding guilds.. work things out between yourselves. Make your own rules with each other; never call the GMs. If GMs aren't called then we'll never know or care what the fuck you do. Now, this thread exists again, and everyone is unhappy with the raiding rules.

Is it REALLY necessary that we act as divine babysitters? Embarrassing imo.

I'd suggest making more proposals, and less accusations. This is turning into exactly what happened last time.

[Aadill]

FFA is an option that has been considered before but is not appropriate for a) the community b) the staff ^^^^ see above

The forum is not a place for discussion of these rules as there really isn't any direction to anything being posted.

[astarothel]

Originally Posted by Alawen Everywhere [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think you have an interesting idea, but you might be missing a key piece of information. The development staff has made it clear that FFA is not an option.

Yeah, which is why I had to settle for the SK model I put forward.

Straight up rotation is stupid. I don't want to have to hold someone's hand and point them towards their loot, let alone what see what happens when a guild in a rotation can't handle the encounter and wipes for hours when there are several other guilds chomping at the bit.

[Yoite]

i have read through the tread and this is the idea i like the most

Originally Posted by Alawen Everywhere [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here's my counter proposal: stop camping. Teach your guild how to mobilize and let's race. .... It makes the kills much more fun. It builds respect between the guilds. Competition helps develop everyone's skills and elevates all to a higher level of play.

[Gwence]

And posts like these are why FFA would never work either.

The raid rules were brought about with every guild in mind, in fact every guild (except Fish Bait, which is Dark Ascension now) agreed on the raid rules. This means leaders from all the guilds believed the rules would give them a fair chance at killing a raid boss. So for a long time prior to these rules being instituted and a short time after their was no camping going on and I never really heard much complaining... until Dark Ascension came along.

I wont say this guild lacks skill, Im sure they have people that are skilled. What they do lack is organization to an extent I rarely have seen in any high end mmo. In order to compensate for this they complain nonstop about everything that does not make the game easier for them.

The ONLY reason that mobs are being camped right now is because of THEM and their general lack of organization within their ranks. They lack the ability to mobilize to a target and because of this they have utilized a "loop-hole" within the raid rules to an extent that has forced IB to do the same thing. Their is a problem though. IB does it better than they do even though we may not want to.

Now, even with them camping stuff their general lack of cohesive leadership and organization has NOT granted them any kind of advantage on the raiding scene. At best they have split the big 4 with IB 2/2 and that has only happened twice. So now the realization has hit them yet again that they are the far inferior guild. Because of this, new complaints must commence.

It's pathetic and I almost feel sorry for people that hold that guild tag.

FFA would be ok for like a week or two and then the complaints would begin, becasue IB will still get the most. IB is going to be the best no matter what raid system you put in, hopefully others will realize this soon.

If all you want to do is experience raid content then Im sure something can be worked out intelligently. I suggest contacting one of our officers and offering us our choice of your loot from mobs you kill that are sanctioned by us. We've experienced the raids and are simply farming for our members. I think it's a good idea!

[Akame]

Originally Posted by Supreme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think you are missing the point we are making.

We play to enjoy the classic EQ content and experience. None of us are still college kids, living single with only ourselves to take care of. We have jobs, families and other responsibilities.

With the current state of affairs it is near impossible to raid and experience classic EQ content unless you spend all your life camping/waiting for this 11 year old content to spawn.

Thus why i suggest creating a second server that has a GM enforced raid rotation to accommodate those players that are like myself. It is not to say that a mob spawns that it is "guaranteed" to go to a guild but a guild will be "guaranteed" a chance to do the content before another guild(s) are allowed.

A Second server isn't the answer, but something is definitely wrong if first in force isn't working. I play to enjoy the game too and I certainly intend to raid when I hit 50, an I also intend to not play like I have too much time on my hands either.

So let me see if I understand it right by all these threads here. (my at a glance view of the raiding on this server by all the complaints and commentary on these forums) The real complaint is DA has the numbers to always have first in force in every raid zone at all times to have first shot at every raid mob as it spawns, however, they're able to monopolize said spawns (at least potentially) because there is no weekly downtime to reset the timers like there used to be in classic? So in order to combat said competition other guilds (namely at least IB) is having to camp things as well, in order to have a shot at said mobs too.

Do I have the right of it?

Also...
Things that have been ruled out as not an option:

No second server: not enough dev man power or will
No simulated patch day: I recall one dev saying it was because this created exposure for exploiters and was never going to be an option
Self policed FFA: Apparently there are more jerks now than there used to be 10 years ago so self policing is not an option.


You can tell me if I'm hot so far.

[Cyrano]

We started out with no enforced raiding rules. Disaster. Guilds training each other, guilds camping out on top of raid npcs days in advance. Then we went to a rotation. That worked fine until a 3rd guild entered the mix, then it became terrible as well

But that is how it was on live. Any rules were implemented by players and usually broke down eventually.

You guys don't have to get involved every time someone get's upset about a situation, but for some reason a GM still always shows up. There will always be new guilds coming into the mix, merging, or reforming from an old tag. These guilds will always want a caveat placed in the rules to help them, or change the situation to make it more open, or in their favor.

The simple fact is raiders in EQ were and are one of the most dedicated and hardcore group of individual gamers in the world... take the gloves off and let us play our game.

Like I've said before in other topics, the people who will abuse an FFA system will get noticed and their reputation will stick... but at least we have a competition which is what the raiding aspect of this game was based on.

[Skope]

The only possible way to nearly eliminate guild bickering and moaning and finger-pointing and the subsequent GM intervention would be a rotation. Getting some mob-hungry and loot-hungry people to agree to that though would be nearly impossible.

Sometimes I wonder what it would be like if the GMs sat down and decided a set of rules and enforced them, having the players give insight as to what would work and what wouldn't, with the GMs trying to take an active role in the formation of the rules as a neutral entity. After that they can just hang back and not worry too much about it. Because the more I think about it, the more I realize that if the GMs really wanted to lighten their work load when it comes to resolving raid guild issues it would actually be quite easy. Whether or not some power-hungry people agree with it wouldn't really matter, their opinions tend to be uncompromising and in reality they don't really have much of a say.