stop bringing up the founding fathers in gun arguments

[Hasbinlulz]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the right to bear arms

Originally Posted by Hasbinlulz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

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[Humerox]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not defending automatic weaponry. Like I said, the specifics are open for discussion. I'm speaking in generalities -- the right to bear arms. The right to own a gun. I'm not breaking down what types of guns, in particular. That's a different debate.

But aside from that, it's not really evidence of anything that one country has managed to avoid catastrophic tyranny for 16 years without an armed populace. Tyranny isn't an inevitability with an unarmed populace, and certainly not within a timeframe of a decade or two. It's merely a possibility, which is too much for some.

I'd also quibble with the notion that this is a matter of possible future issues vs. present day issues. Many people would disagree that there is an issue in America. Committing a violent act with a gun is illegal. Violators are prosecuted. Law abiding citizens are free to own firearms. To many, that is perfectly acceptable and the fact that murder rates are higher in the United States is an unfortunate side effect of greater degrees of liberty. Many Americans would see it as a bigger issue that citizens of other countries are legally incapable of defending themselves -- whether from crime or government.

/best in thread

Some thoughts:

The two greatest expansions of personal liberty in American history, the abolition of slavery and desegregation, were enforced by the armed forces, over the objections of state governments and in the face of violence by certain armed citizens fond of gray uniforms or white hoods.

As long as we are writing science fiction, in the event that a Hitler, Stalin or Mao seized control in Washington, D.C., this American tyrant would worry far more about being murdered by the praetorian guard or overthrown by the military than about the near-impossibility of defeat of the U.S. armed forces by ordinary armed citizens, particularly the kind of pathetic right-wing militia members who would have trouble taking over a trailer park.

Many democratic nations of western Europe and east Asia have more civil liberties protections for their citizens than the U.S., and few have political systems as corrupted by gerrymandering and big money as the U.S. (Italy is a prominent exception). No other advanced industrial democracy is in imminent danger of becoming a tyranny because of gun control regulations and the lack of an American-style gun culture among Brits or Swedes or Japanese.


Last but not least...


BAN BOOBIES BECAUSE THEY'RE MURDER WEAPONS

Can't believe I missed this whole troll thread.

[Tarathiel]

where do you think the big bad army would get an army to shoot at american civilian's anyways, i know quite a few people in the military and im pretty confident that if shit hit the fan they wouldnt be siding with the government

[Rikimeru]

Originally Posted by Tarathiel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

where do you think the big bad army would get an army to shoot at american civilian's anyways, i know quite a few people in the military and im pretty confident that if shit hit the fan they wouldnt be siding with the government

its called "private contractors". if you haven't noticed there has been a large private contractor force building in this country over the last 10 years. those guys dont give a shit who they shoot as long as their large paychecks keep rolling in.

[Tarathiel]

big bad government* stupid fucking rnf and its stupid fucking no editing, at least gimme 30 secs to check my grammar and spelling fuck

[Portsche]

Originally Posted by Tarathiel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

big bad government* stupid fucking rnf and its stupid fucking no editing, at least gimme 30 secs to check my grammar and spelling fuck

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[Tarathiel]

Originally Posted by Portsche [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

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psh i cant be bothered with such conveniences, i post first proof read later, its how i keep my rage honed

[Rikimeru]

Originally Posted by EvilMallet [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

founding fathers were profiteers who wanted to break off from the british to avoid taxes, and they lived in an era where owning a gun was your only method of protecting yourself and getting food.

Those men supported your right to bear arms because it meant you were very likely to kill some redcoats.

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. -Thomas Jefferson

“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” - Thomas jefferson

The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it. -Thomas Jefferson

one of the key founding fathers of our nation would disagree with you.

[Daldolma]

Is that directed at me? I hardly think the US government has an interest in mass executing American civilians. Hopefully that never changes. But to act like it could never happen is naive. It has happened, and recently, in Europe.

It's not like every Stalinist or Nazi was a deranged murderer intent on killing civilians. Governments find their reasons, shovel their propaganda, and atrocities are committed. The US isn't any more immune to this than Germany or the Soviet Union were.

[Daldolma]

^ @ tara